Amin put some sort of BOKness into this episode? That means I'm gonna have to listen to myself to know what everyone is talking about. I hate listening to myself. Thanks alot Amin....ya bastard.

Amin: Evil genius in chief

I love BOK Amin even though the last anime I watched was Robotech Macross Saga. It got me to finally download and watch a Firefly epidode. You and Ashley do a great job on it as do your guest hosts!

I would have prefered the episode without all the tidbits of BOK. Sorry, I may sound grumpy - but I do not need that stuff at all. A shoutout is ok - but what is the purpose of several 10sec bits and pieces from discussions that somebody who does not listen to BOK can not even put to the right episode...

Regarding the episode: It was good. I wondered when Kyle said that there is no epsiode that he gave 5 lemoncakes and thought: "Wait a minute EVERYBODY gave Blackwater 5 lc" - yeah. But Kyle was not on that episode.

So Kyle: You would not give Blackwater "5 out of 5 lemoncakes"??

The purpose is to give tidbits of different discussions that catch the attention of people who recognize it and then move on to listen to the actual BOK episode. I know we've gained a few listeners from that already who would not have heard of it otherwise. It's not in the main podcast show, it's in the aftershow, which I consider fair game for this sort of thing. Not that I plan to do such excerpts often if ever, but I may throw in the 5 second shoutouts in the aftershow from time to time.

Great episode, as always.

On the topic of huge eunuchs, based on shit I learned about 6 or 7 years ago...

If it's a pre-pubertal castration, they'll miss out on hairy chests and muscles and booming voices. If they're cut after their growth spurt has already started, they may grow taller than average because testosterone also stops the growth spurt. But they'll be tall, lanky weaklings since they won't have any of the other manly features like muscle mass and broad frame (not that I have either of those...) and the bones will be weak. I suppose if the Unsullied are training all day every day, that could explain some of their frames.

And most importantly yes, castrated folks will accumulate fat, usually in the love handle area.

well woman body builders can be quite frightening, so couldn't they still get pretty buff, just with a lot more effort?

And maybe a healthy dose of testosterone? I wonder if that's regulated. But yeah they do terrify me so...

I liked the BOK stuff. I thought Amin was smart to give listeners some little teasers and I agree that after the creaking door is fair game.

Great episode guys. Only real comment I have is about Talisa and whether or not she is at the Red Wedding. I hope that she isn't because if she dies wouldn't it be a spoiler as to the Jeyne character having no real relevance in the future.

Can't wait to hear about the convention stuff. Sounds awesome!

They could easily make her into the other Jeyne. And maybe keep the Heir to the North theory in there too.

Yeah they could do that, when all the stark kids have been written off I spose the widow of th eldest is the best you can get.

I usually don't want them to watt down the violence for the show, but I would be totally fine if they ton that down a bit.

I think D&D have already confirmed that they will axe the Theon/Jeyne/Ramsay sex scene. They were apparently too appalled by what went down in that scene to put it in the show. This feels like a lame excuse considering what they put in recent episodes, but whatever///

Brynden Blackfish escapes with her, swimming down the river back to Riverrun. Because Talisa is the Mary-Sue of Westeros, and she can not die.

Let's be honest here, Jon Snow is the one true Mary-Sue of Westeros. Especially when he inevitably lives through the mutiny.

Yeah but he's coming back weird and feral. Anyone see those graphics on tumblr about Rickon as the black wolf, a crazy murder man with the fury of winter fucking up the south? Well that's what Jon's going to end up being. Some Beric/Stoneheart level shit.

Well then. That was prompt. I feel like it could have played out better to carry more oomph.

I think Jon has enough flaws to avoid MarySue-ness. I always thought Beric fit that type more. I love him, I do, but he is kinda near perfect.

I think there's a difference between a stock side character and a major character like JSnow (not that I think he's a gary stu)

Much as I was disappointed to see Jon Snow get all Julius Caesered, I'm not sure I'm down with another 'not dead after all' rugpull by George. I kind of feel he's overplayed that particular trick a few times already. Sure I guess Jon could warg into someone else, but essentially they're a passenger at the end of the day, and as far as most folks are likely concerned, if you're not the physical body then you're no longer really the person.

I listened to this episode again and it brought a few ideas to mind.

For me, the reason Selyse's jars looked so sci fi was the color and the lighting. There was a window behind them, but I'm pretty sure the actual set pieces had some kind of internal lighting as well. The green color also seems like such a sci fi trope, they should've gone with yellow.

Warning: possible squick.


Regarding Ros' reading skills: She does seem quite capable of developing a relationship with her regulars like Theon and Tyrion, it's not out of the question that some client of hers taught her to read. Maester Luwin, probably.

Could she definitely read before Tywin got to town? We know what a committed educator he is.

head canon

I kind of figured that Littlefinger probably had her lettered up so she could assist him.

As much as I'm glad that Ros is no more, it would have been awesome if she'd died like Dontos! Even though I got what I wanted, I'm still not happy ... typical book reader I guess!

Jon manages to become the Lord Commander's steward, kill a wight thus discovering their weakness, get a Valyrian steel sword, attempt desertion with no real repercussions, join an elite force of Night Watch badasses, kill Qhorin Halfhand, ingratiate himself with the Wildlings to the point that someone as cunning as Mance Rayder doesn't see through his deception, scale The Wall (I know he did it the easy way in the books, but still), escape the Wildlings and rejoin the Watch, lead a defense against Mance Rayder's army, get elected as Lord Commander of the Night's Watch after breaking his vows, and get offered the lordship of Winterfell. Oh and he is named the heir to the North (if Robb has no kids and Bran or Rickon are never found). All of this at an extremely young age. On top of all that, he's half Targaryen, half Stark. I also have absolutely no doubt in my mind that he's going to come back relatively unscathed after being deposed. There's a reason why people didn't react as strongly to Jon's "death" as say the RW or Ned's execution. The same finality just isn't there and its plain to see.

Sure, he has his flaws, but he gets away with everything.

You have some points there: I thought being accepted by the wildlings was especially lucky and a bit unrealistic.
Being forgiven for his faults and climbing the ladder quickly within the NW I always attributed to him being the tallest dwarf in the room so to speak. He wasn't perfectly suited for leadership and it did bite him in the ass, but I agree that his death seems unlikely and I never considered that he was really gone. We will just have to wait and see what happens...

I've never really understood why people are upset by a fantasy hero in a fantasy novel. as long as he suffers and doesn't just glide into perfect happiness i don't really care if he's less of a subversion of fantasy tropes than everyone else, it's a fantasy series in the end after all.

I'm not upset about it, but he is a Mary-Sue.

I dunno, I feel like Mary-Sues are inherently less interesting. I enjoy Jon and his chapters, he works and he struggles and he's not always the good guy. I like that a lot, but unlikely shit does happen to/for him. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about the mary sueness of that

I always thought that Jon didn't really fool Mance but that Mance was amused by Ygritte's infatuation of him and either thought she would convince him to stay once he got laid or expected him to die climbing the Wall.