So far, so good!

I, too, want everything.

A more subdued episode which is of course reasonable given the circumstances, but as usual I am really loving the podcast's perspective on things.

Woohoo new episode!

Grats on 1337 posts Kyle.

So far great episode. I liked Amin's use of the phrase 'sweat pants person' .

I believe someone asked for a Throne of Cocks cover?



Awfully sorry about that. I already had photoshop open, so I just had to do it. I'll go back to hiding, now.

Why would the Bastard of Bolton have a problem disguising himself as a prison janitor? In the books this is the guy that covered himself in filth and went by the name Reek. I don't think he has a problem with sweeping a floor to further his plan to trick Theon. I was actually surprised that he looked rather clean.

Crossbows are cowardly weapons and un-manly? Right, because it's so manly to hunt a boar with a sword.

He didn't have a problem covering himself in filth and calling himself Reek because it was the only option to save his own life.

From wiki of ice and fire



I just found it out of character for Ramsay to be like "Hey guys you torture him while I pretend to sweep the floor." Knowing Ramsay he probably had all those men tortured afterwards for "making" him sweep the floor like some common bastard. What a sick-o.

Haha. I meant in battle.

SWEEETTTT MOOOSSSEEESSS!!!! I probably shouldn't share this outside of the forum, but I'm not sure I can help it.

I also thought the Margaery scene (reacting to Joffrey's idea to execute gays) set things up nicely as a reason why the Tyrell's would be so invested in getting rid of Joffrey.

You asked so . . .
there's nothing in ASOIAF that says wargs only connect with wolves. Wargs=skinchanger. Same thing. The specifics of Norse mythology have nothing to do with it. Martin can borrow ideas from real world myths and change them into whatever he wants.

I believe it's mentioned on page 561 of the hardcover of Clash of Kings but I only have the paperback with me so I can't check.

I'm curious to know what it says on pg 561 if anyone has the hardcover. (I may just be pulling that out of my ass.)

But here's something straight from GRRM’s mouth.

GRRM: "A warg is bound to a wolf. Skinchanger is a more general term. All wargs are skinchangers, but not all skinchangers are wargs.”

http://boiledleather.com/post/289086737 ... inchangers

Agreed. Margaery's reaction was great and just another reason to hate Joff.

Seems like torturing Theon himself and having someone else do the sweeping and tricking would be more up the sick Bastard's alley. I don't think there's any reason for him to do the tricking himself?

You don't think he gets off on that kind of thing? Quietly sweeping, enjoying all the sweet sounds of the pretty torture, setting up his next hunt...

I searched every instance of the word 'warg' in ACOK and the only thing that seems like it would fit (halfway through the book, that is) would be Jojen telling Bran that he is a warg, but nothing in there specific to wolves. There are many instances of people, in the books, listing wargs and skinchangers (i.e.; "raiders and giants, warg and skinchangers") which could imply that there is a difference between the two. But, then there is this quote by Jojen in ASOS, "The greenseers were more than that. They were wargs as well, as you are, and the greatest of them could wear the skins of any beast that flies or swims or crawls" that shows wargs can connect with more than just wolves, though maybe just special super-wargs. AND THEN, there's this qoute by Stannis in ASOS, "You are a warg too, they say, a skinchanger who walks at night as a wolf.", which kind of contradicts Jojen's statement.

Of course, if Martin confirmed it, out of cannon, in an interview I'll go by his say-so, but still nothing really absolute in the books that says wargs are only for wolves. And the Stark children seem to be breaking the rules anyways -if there ever were 'warg rules'- so I don't think HBO did anything wrong with their 'introduction to wargs'.

I don't see how any of that contradicts, "All wargs are skinchangers, but not all skinchangers are wargs.” And while GRRM's wargs aren't like those from Tolkien or Norse myth, I think it's unlikely he'd chose a term associated with wolf-creatures if he didn't intend it to be associated with wolves.

Oh, I wasn't saying that it contradicted Martin's statement. Just that I didn't find any instance in the books that said wargs are specifically connected with wolves, and only wolves.

Getting riled up about semantics used in a fiction universe is even worse than arguments about semantics in real life, which is already awful.

This is it exactly! A warg is a skinchanger that can bond with a wolf. A skinchanger that chooses not to bond with a wolf is not a warg. Orell chooses to only bond with an Eagle so he is a skinchanger but not a warg.

But as far as the show is concerned: Warg = Skinchanger

I enjoy being able to chat with all of you here about nit picky stuff like this without resorting to name calling or belittling one another. It's what makes this forum so much fun for me. Thank you guys for chatting.

Discussions about nitpicky stuff is fine, but I get a massive headache when people try to pin meaning to words that aren't clearly defined and could go either way. This is true in almost every context.

Oh, yeah, me neither. I always just assumed it was because of LotR and D&D.

Despite what Martin said, I think I'm going to keep referring to all skinchangers as wargs. I'll call Borroq "Borrog the Boarwarg" and not "Borroq the skinchanger with the boar." Warg works as a verb too, "One does not simply scinchange into Hodor" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.

I've always hated crossbows, take too long to load. I like the little detail that Joffrey's crossbows have cranks and levers, he's too much of a little bitch to even draw his own string. And boars were primarily hunted with dogs and spears. Some contemporary hunters actually hunt boar with a knife.

Glad I could find the quote you were thinking of. And yes, I like chatting about this 'nitpicky' stuff too. I never got the sense (in the books) that there was a diference between wargs and skinchangers because, so far, Martin has not made a real reason for a difference. What I mean is that there is no real reason given why the people of this world would have a different name for a person who mind-melds with a wolf, as opposed to a person who mind-melds with an eagle or a bear. Why are wolf skinchangers singled out? Are wolves better? Why?

But within the scope of the tv show, I agree it's doubtful they're going to make a disticntion between the two.

Hmm knowing Ramsey, playing the janitor is part of his master plan. Torture Theon, then get his trust...and convince Theon to reveal the actual truth under the guise of saving him...then completely break him by betraying him.
It's a good master plan, and I feel it's something Ramsey probably did. After capturing Theon, he might have said that he is under orders from his father, but will try to save Theon because of their history, then betray him.
I like it. It adds to the psychological torture, because we know Theon doesn't just get broken physically. Ripping off some toenails or fingers isn't enough to create the creature we meet in Dance.

Got it.

Wolves have significance to people in most mythologies, they are much more human than most wilderness species because of their socialness, occasional (occasional) friendliness, and their intelligence. They often have a special place!

Lots of animals have significance in mythologies. The same argument could be made about ravens or horses or any animal really. Wolves are not universally considered more important than other animals. And I can't find anything in the books that places wolves above other animals. If you can find it, I'd like to hear it.