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Episode 99 - the Mystery Knight
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theyrenotdolls
house tinywoody lord
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 7:25 pm Posts: 69
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Great episode guys. Wish Ashley would have been more vocal.
I get all the evidence that the fiddler was gay...my only question is why did grrm write this character to be gay? What function does it offer the narrative?
_________________ -Denys
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Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:38 pm |
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Pod's Plight
house payne
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 4:43 pm Posts: 2143 Location: Michigan
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theyrenotdolls wrote: Great episode guys. Wish Ashley would have been more vocal.
I get all the evidence that the fiddler was gay...my only question is why did grrm write this character to be gay? What function does it offer the narrative? Would being straight offer anything to the narrative? The written sexual preference just happens to be part of the character. I don't think any statement is trying to be made, he's just into dudes. Nothing is explicitly stated and we as readers are permitted to draw our own conclusions about the characters and their particular motivations. I guess I don't really understand the question; why is Dunk tall, why is Tyrion short, why does Hot Pie love pies? It's just the way they are and it informs how they see the world and interact with it.
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Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:06 pm |
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Alias
★wardens of the woody★
Joined: Tue May 22, 2012 1:29 pm Posts: 4538 Location: Boulder, Colorado
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Also the Fiddler had to serve the function of awkward sexual moment person that Tanselle Too-tall and the Red Widow covered in the other two books because gods know Ser Kyle was too scared to do it.
_________________ “So they called it, though I never saw a king, nor earned a penny. It was a war, though. That it was.”
Fantasy Football Team: The Gay Abandon
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Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:43 am |
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LordManderBlee
★wardens of the woody★
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:40 pm Posts: 4839 Location: Philadelphia
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Pod's Plight wrote: theyrenotdolls wrote: Great episode guys. Wish Ashley would have been more vocal.
I get all the evidence that the fiddler was gay...my only question is why did grrm write this character to be gay? What function does it offer the narrative? Would being straight offer anything to the narrative? The written sexual preference just happens to be part of the character. I don't think any statement is trying to be made, he's just into dudes. Nothing is explicitly stated and we as readers are permitted to draw our own conclusions about the characters and their particular motivations. I guess I don't really understand the question; why is Dunk tall, why is Tyrion short, why does Hot Pie love pies? It's just the way they are and it informs how they see the world and interact with it. Yeah exactly. He just was. Also about the disease stuff, it's best just to remember that George doesn't understand it so it won't ever make sense
_________________ "The north remembers, and this mummer’s farce is almost done" - Wyman Manderly, WHITE HARBOR FREY PIES
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Sun Mar 03, 2013 3:39 pm |
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theyrenotdolls
house tinywoody lord
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 7:25 pm Posts: 69
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LordManderBlee wrote: Pod's Plight wrote: theyrenotdolls wrote: Great episode guys. Wish Ashley would have been more vocal.
I get all the evidence that the fiddler was gay...my only question is why did grrm write this character to be gay? What function does it offer the narrative? Would being straight offer anything to the narrative? The written sexual preference just happens to be part of the character. I don't think any statement is trying to be made, he's just into dudes. Nothing is explicitly stated and we as readers are permitted to draw our own conclusions about the characters and their particular motivations. I guess I don't really understand the question; why is Dunk tall, why is Tyrion short, why does Hot Pie love pies? It's just the way they are and it informs how they see the world and interact with it. Yeah exactly. He just was. Also about the disease stuff, it's best just to remember that George doesn't understand it so it won't ever make sense Yeah, sorta like Gendry and Joffrey's hair color, right? Oh wait! I guess what I mean is there something about the blackfyre lineage or a marriage pact or some other element of the backstory that was affected by the fiddler's sexuality? I'm not being judge mental about gay or straight or whatever, but GRRM seems to go to some lengths to drop subtle hints about fiddlers sexual preferences. In the instance of renly and Lora's, their affair has profound aspects on the narrative ... ie Margery's virginity, which wouldn't even be questioned if Renly were straight.
_________________ -Denys
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Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:43 pm |
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Pod's Plight
house payne
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 4:43 pm Posts: 2143 Location: Michigan
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theyrenotdolls wrote: Pod's Plight wrote: theyrenotdolls wrote: Great episode guys. Wish Ashley would have been more vocal.
I get all the evidence that the fiddler was gay...my only question is why did grrm write this character to be gay? What function does it offer the narrative? Would being straight offer anything to the narrative? The written sexual preference just happens to be part of the character. I don't think any statement is trying to be made, he's just into dudes. Nothing is explicitly stated and we as readers are permitted to draw our own conclusions about the characters and their particular motivations. I guess I don't really understand the question; why is Dunk tall, why is Tyrion short, why does Hot Pie love pies? It's just the way they are and it informs how they see the world and interact with it. Yeah, sorta like Gendry and Joffrey's hair color, right? Oh wait! I guess what I mean is there something about the blackfyre lineage or a marriage pact or some other element of the backstory that was affected by the fiddler's sexuality? I'm not being judge mental about gay or straight or whatever, but GRRM seems to go to some lengths to drop subtle hints about fiddlers sexual preferences. In the instance of renly and Lora's, their affair has profound aspects on the narrative ... ie Margery's virginity, which wouldn't even be questioned if Renly were straight. I get get where you're coming from, and it is certainly possible that his gayness could have impacted the story in some way or had significance in a broader scope, but I simply don't think that such an outcome is a necessity in order to warrant the inclusion of a character's nonnormative sexual predilection. I'm content to accept it as expository world building and character development. I'd also be perfectly happy if it did turn out to be a notable plot point. I just get a little uneasy when we require an author to justify writing a homosexual character by having that component play a decisive role in the story, as though same-sex attraction is a personal abnormality which necessitates extra explanation and oughtn't be present unless addressed directly. You posed a legitimate question, and I' wasn't looking to extrapolate your wider views on the issue or accuse you of anything, I just wanted to offer my opinion on the matter. Thanks for listening.
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Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:51 pm |
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witless chum
★wardens of the woody★
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:20 pm Posts: 1527 Location: Kalamazoo, The Southern North
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Quote: - Regarding "Why Fireball's son is so good" - everybody could have a good/lucky day. Look at Jorah. There has not be any cause for that. Ser Glendon wasn't beating the first rank of jousters either. The tourney was a regional affair at best. No Laughing Storm, no Kingsguard (for obvious damn reasons). That plus talent, training and—as Amin pointed out—lots of practice with horsemanship plus some pretty extreme motivation and drive makes it not so hard to believe. Quote: I get get where you're coming from, and it is certainly possible that his gayness could have impacted the story in some way or had significance in a broader scope, but I simply don't think that such an outcome is a necessity in order to warrant the inclusion of a character's nonnormative sexual predilection. I'm content to accept it as expository world building and character development. I'd also be perfectly happy if it did turn out to be a notable plot point. I just get a little uneasy when we require an author to justify writing a homosexual character by having that component play a decisive role in the story, as though same-sex attraction is a personal abnormality which necessitates extra explanation and oughtn't be present unless addressed directly. You posed a legitimate question, and I' wasn't looking to extrapolate your wider views on the issue or accuse you of anything, I just wanted to offer my opinion on the matter. Thanks for listening. The way Martin describes creating his world in interviews, it probably just sorta came to him 'Oh, he fiddles with the same sex' rather than him sitting down and deciding consciously to make the character gay. Also, Daemon II's sexual orientation did drive the a plot because Alyn Cockshaw's jealousy of Dunk leads him to try to kill our hero and presumably a straight Fiddler wouldn't have created quite the same mix of emotions in Cockshaw, even if he'd still have had a crush on his friend. It's not 100 percent clear whether Alyn and the Fiddler are actually lovers, or whether Lord Allyn wants it that way. I'd guess probably so, but that's just a feeling. But even so, I think even if they weren't the knowledge that it was more of a possibility would have made Allyn's crush way worse.
_________________ "These wonderful narrations inspired me with strange feelings. Was man, indeed, at once so powerful, so virtuous and magnificent, yet so vicious and base? He appeared at one time a mere scion of the evil principle, and at another as all that can be conceived of noble and godlike." —The Monster, from Frankenstein by Mary Shelley
Skype: danpepper79
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Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:27 pm |
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Arristan the Old
house manwoody lord
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 10:07 pm Posts: 474 Location: The Forges of Qohor (Northern Branch)
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I agree with FTWard in post #2 about shadow babies (ie. shadowbinding) being separate from the red priesthood. It's an Asshai thing, not a R'hllor thing. This gets glossed over every time, and I think it's because Melisandre is both. As Cressen thinks to himself, she is several things: "sorceress, shadowbinder, and priestees to R'hllor". For the record, Quaithe is also a shadowbinder, though she's not a red priestess.
I'm a believer about the Plumm = Bloodraven thing. He was glamored to look like Plumm, that's why the illusion started to fade when he started easing off playing the part of Plumm (by confiding more than Plumm ought to know to Dunk) and Dunk tried to get a better look at him - sort of like why Melisandre insisted Mance keep wearing Rarttleshirt's armor and playing the part to maintain his glamor. The gem Plumm wore was a magical glamor gem, just like the one Mance wears (and Meli too, though theirs have a different type of stone - makes sense BR's is white and hers is red though). Though I'm sure he would have been capable of skinchanging into the real Plumm. But for me the gemstone brooch (which even got a "one eye"-type line) and the fading of the illusion bit match too closely with what we learned about glamors in ADWD to be mere coincidence. Plus he totally pulls a polkaroo at the end there; as soon as Bloodraven shows up, Plumm is nowhere to be found... "What? He was here again? Are you shittin' me? Just now? How do I keep just barely missing that guy - it's uncanny!?" Riiiight.
Is Plumm = Bloodraven the reason why Tyrion suggests Brown Ben has two drops, not just one, of dragon's blood? I feel like there's a clue there that I haven't completely deciphered yet.
PS. The fiddler? Sorry Kyle, it is known.
_________________Tobho had learned to work Valyrian steel at the forges of Qohor as a boy. Only a man who knew the spells could take old weapons and forge them anew. My YouTube videos (where ASOIAF and backyard metal casting intersect): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyxrbU ... ENpVGbAjOw
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Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:53 am |
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Shellfish
★wardens of the woody★
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 3:29 pm Posts: 1174
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Today I was in what I thought was an empty public bathroom. I walked up to the urinal and, for my own amusement, very matter-of-factly said: "Fiddle with his dick." There was a shuffling noise from one of the stalls. I froze for a second, and then allowed myself a discreet chortle. As he made his exit, the gentleman occupying the stall seemed remarkably unwilling to make eye-contact with me.
See what you are doing to me, APOIAF.
_________________ In a dream, I saw the eastern sky grow dark. But in the West a pale light lingered.
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Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:01 pm |
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Pod's Plight
house payne
Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 4:43 pm Posts: 2143 Location: Michigan
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Shellfish wrote: Today I was in what I thought was an empty public bathroom. I walked up to the urinal and, for my own amusement, very matter-of-factly said: "Fiddle with his dick." There was a shuffling noise from one of the stalls. I froze for a second, and then allowed myself a discreet chortle. As he made his exit, the gentleman occupying the stall seemed remarkably unwilling to make eye-contact with me.
See what you are doing to me, APOIAF. Implying that you attempted to make eye-contact with him as he departed; a bold maneuver in the circumstances. I don't know about public bathrooms where you come form, but here in the States a few strategic foot taps can get the job done. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Craig_scandal
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Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:12 pm |
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josephus
house manwoody mongoballer
Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 2:20 pm Posts: 346 Location: montrose fucking PA
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ol senator wide stance
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Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:11 pm |
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Tom 162
house tyrell
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:21 pm Posts: 396
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browndragon wrote: 2) We did see the Inn of the Crossroads in the Mystery Knight. In Breinne VII of A Feast of Crows, Septon Meribald recites the entire history of the Inn, and specifically a time when it was called the "River Inn" because the "Trident flowed beneath its back door" and there was a ferry landing where "travelers could cross to Lord Harroway's Town and Whitewalls." When Brienne questions the location of the Trident, the septon acknowledges the river moved 70 to 80 years ago.
So, a piece of local lineage? Tommard Heddle related to Masha Heddle?
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Sun Nov 29, 2015 8:00 pm |
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