A Podcast Of Ice and Fire
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Episode 118: What If? Part 3
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Author:  anacardo [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
Steven-not-Stefan,

Really, if anything, you've just got a bit of a circumlocution problem. Some of us are right there with you. Just fight the urge to explain everything all at once, even when it's something you're as in love with as The Great Southron Sea Invasion Scenario.

Nobody else will go for it, sounds like - I think few of the rest of us can imagine anyone having the political clout / sheer will to devote half/most/all/? of the naval strength of the Six remaining Kingdoms to this task of going all Amory Lorch on the entire North. Nobody's got the stomach for that, even men like Tywin Lannister and Stannis Baratheon.

What you really see, I think, is action at the only place anybody south of the Neck is probably really interested in - White Harbor. In that case we could have George throw us a Manderly grandson POV as Wyman becomes the Themistocles of the North and leads his Mermaid Marines onto the deck of Stannis's flagship (one wonders if he'd personally command). W00t. Anyway, relatively huge Dragonstone + allies fleet vs. whatever naval force the North can throw together - maybe the Vale really does have to jump in as far as whatever Gulltown has in the way of ships? And maybe the Iron Throne lets the Ironborn off the leash to go keep it real, but these endless long marches to take these tiny population/political centers - it's just too unfeasible.

You could probably put together a campaign to take White Harbor, establish a supply line, head up the White Knife as far it's navigable and head overland to show up outside the gates of Winterfell with maybe even a numerical advantage in any conceivable battle versus Robb's main host when told to bend the knee or be placed under siege. But that's incredibly dicey - the Iron Throne might have to win a few land and sea engagements if the Starks decide they're really determined, and in a row - one reverse and the whole thing's off probably, casualties will be enormous, expense unbelievable. I don't think it's militarily and politically possible to keep the North a part of the Seven Kingdoms if they decide they want out, without dragons or cutting a deal with the Boltons. Stannis would have to be the greatest field commander of all time. Though if he pulled it off, I guess it would settle the whole Azor Ahai thing in a very unexpected way.
Author:  mimi [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
anacardo wrote:
Really, if anything, you've just got a bit of a circumlocution problem. Some of us are right there with you.


i have this problem too. either i go off on a tangent and just start rhapsodizing, or else i'm clearly not paying attention to the conversation thread and googling naked pictures of nikolaj coster-waldau.
Author:  Lady_Grey [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
mimi wrote:
googling naked pictures of nikolaj coster-waldau.


:lol: didn't know there were any. Thanks for the tip ;)
Author:  Vikingkingq [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
anacardo wrote:
Steven-not-Stefan,

Really, if anything, you've just got a bit of a circumlocution problem. Some of us are right there with you. Just fight the urge to explain everything all at once, even when it's something you're as in love with as The Great Southron Sea Invasion Scenario.

Nobody else will go for it, sounds like - I think few of the rest of us can imagine anyone having the political clout / sheer will to devote half/most/all/? of the naval strength of the Six remaining Kingdoms to this task of going all Amory Lorch on the entire North.


You'd think so, but then again, Westeros tried the same thing with Dorne three or four times before giving up and using diplomacy instead.
Author:  anacardo [ Wed Sep 11, 2013 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
No dragons now, and it didn't work even with dragons. The Iron Throne's political clout/unity was much greater then as well - in your scenario lots and lots of houses great and small weasel out of troop / supply commitments any which way they can, and tensions get worse and worse everywhere south of the Neck unless, again, all the IT does is winwinwin. I would bet a further splintering / more breakaway Kingdoms the more likely result of this policy than a strategic victory for Stannis et al.
Author:  inkasrain [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
I LOVED listening to this one, guys. Pure love. Most of the troop discussions sailed way beyond me, but it was still fascinating - and I appreciated the attention to character as well. My only suggestion would be to have another episode that is primarily character focused, since "What if?" when you're talking politics and when you're talking psychology seem to require different approaches.

But seriously, great show and I look forward to listening again.

Edit: I meant to mention that if you do PBEM, you absolutely must save all of your plotting correspondence and compile it afterward.
Author:  commodore [ Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
Quote:
Quote:
Steven needs to break up his conversation into smaller chunks. When you are in podcast with more than 2 people, you should rarely be talking more than 1 minute at one time, and even more rarely 2 minutes. That should be an exceptional case, mainly when setting up a topic, that is it.


Noted.



I listened to the Podcast again and this time I was much less distracted by your (Steven) control and realize that you have a lot of amazing insight. The comments about the time line narrow misses (King Robert's death especially) was superb. Aside from the other contributors just being polite and not wanting to cut you off, I would imagine there were times when they did not feel they were on the same level as you and did not have as much to contribute (or it was already said).

In response to the "what if": Rob went back and took the north and the iron throne attacked--you guys spent probably over 5 minutes debating a sea attack, guerrilla warfare, razing Winterfell, etc when you all forgot the comment made at the start of this "what if": that Rob has Jaime Lannister to make the iron throne behave. A counter argument could be that Tywin mustered the strength of the West because Tyrion was taken captive. However, Tywin is not necessarily a brute force and ignorance kind of guy. I think he would happily let Rob alone in the North to get Jaime back.
Author:  HMFIC [ Wed Sep 25, 2013 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
I'll be honest I was distracted by the Steven discussion as well too. He had some good points but more-is-less certainly applies. Particularly when he was trying to justify the Southron Sea Invasion...

Please reference these incredibly short books "List of Successful Invasions of Russia" and "Amphibious Warfare prior to World War II"...their short books for a reason. And both of those apply to the North.
Author:  Amin [ Sat Oct 18, 2014 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
If you can't get enough of what if? episodes, check out my guest appearance on Boiled Leather Episode 22 - http://boiledleather.com/post/655539950 ... episode-22
Author:  Imogen.OB [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
Does anyone else watch Lets Plays of Kingdom Conquest 2's Game of Thrones mod to live out various What Ifs, because, I, like, totally do.
Author:  Gytrash [ Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Episode 118: What If? Part 3
Imogen.OB wrote:
Does anyone else watch Lets Plays of Kingdom Conquest 2's Game of Thrones mod to live out various What Ifs, because, I, like, totally do.


A part of me wishes D&D would just throw out all the information George gave them about the ending and just use the show as an amazing opportunity to make all the crackiest fan theories come true.
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