I'm listening right now. So far, great stuff!

Good episode. Enjoyed all the 'regular' guest hosts.

Thanks for the episode!

Everyone is of course free to dig deeper into the world of the novels how they please, but I rather feel that predicting or championing social progress in Westeros is ultimately futile. Themes like "feudalism doesn't work" and "the peasants get the shit end of the stick" do occasionally pop up, but the narrative doesn't seem to very interested in them, so why should I be?

In a series about dynastic power struggles between families, I feel that we are invited to be engrossed in these struggles. Declaring oneself to be on "Team Smallfolk" seems like missing the point to me. There is a overarching theme that these petty squabbles among the nobles is wasteful, but ignoring the supernatural threat of the Others is treated as a greater sin than wreaking havoc on the people they rule.

For the chapter reread; I believe that the habit of Boltons flaying Starks may be a superstitious attempt to counter their skinchanging abilities.
Eagle video derail was the best derail.

For the podcast itself, some (hopefully)constructive criticism: Personally I'm not a fan of the Tarantino-esque way the start of the call is included in the aftershow. The ice-breakers do occasionally yield some gems, but general housekeeping and preparation doesn't seem like useable material to me. I know I don't have to listen to it, but due to my borderline OCD completionist streak, I do like to listen to the entire file.

Listening to the episode now and just writing stuff down as I hear it.

I remember reading these Jon chapters and it coincides with Bran hiding in the crypts of Winterfell and I think we are meant to assume that Bran was communicating through his dreams to Jon which cleverly hides the reveal of the Weir-network later on. Read what Bran says and it matches both scenarios.

Squire Dalbridge was the squire of Jaehaerys II (Aerys' father, Egg's son) which was 'confirmed' in the WOIaF App.

Qhorin picked his team for their skills but I remember that Stonesnake and Dalbridge are described as old and Ebben is a veteran ranger too and so probably old aswell. Similar to Manderly and Whoresbane only bringing old men to Winterfell, I think Qhorin knew from the start that his team (except Jon) were not going to make it back alive so he picked older men or maybe they volunteered.

Yes someone posted about that in the comments as well, the Bran in the current [ACOK] timeline reaching over and how that could fit the dream. But why the thing with the 3 eyes and the crow then? That's the odd part (because that's ADWD related material, not ACOK)

Bran is the three-eyed crow now.

I don't think it's one thing or the other. I think Martin explores multiple facets of this society, and I would argue the series is absolutely interested in the workings of feudalism, and the plight of the smallfolk. Maybe they're not given a perspective, but their experiences are at least related to us via Arya and Brienne.

I do agree that at times when the points are brought up, they can be quite salient; such as Meribald's story or Jorah's explanation on the wants and needs of the smallfolk. But these scenes are too infrequent for it to be a major theme, even for the most developed lowborn character, Gendry, his connection to the nobility is the foundation of his character.

It's almost like George acknowledging that for the sake of authenticity, his sandbox must needs be dirty.

I feel like GRRM absolutely acknowledges how screwed up this whole system is - sometimes it's not totally explicit, but it's definitely there. Meribald's monologue in AFFC is one of my favourite things in the whole books.

Great episode. I'm about to do ACOK re-read and will pay more attention to this chapter. I agree with Stephan that at first read this chapter really doesn't stand out but after going over it there's a lot there.

Also I really liked the discussion about Stephan's article however I think there was confusion about Patriarchy as a family structure and a male dominant society structure.

I agree, though they are far from mutually exclusive. The conversation seemed to focus primarily on the ways patriarchy manifests in the great lords of Westeros, rather than generally, which I believe was Stefan's emphasis, not having read the essay.

I find the "theme of Smallfolk" interesting generally. Something I hope we can talk about on the Dunk and Egg VoK.

I have noticed that one of the female guest-hosts moaned at some of the statements of Stefan (when he joked about being an oppressed man at home for example). I don't think that was appropriate for a podcast. It's a bit disrespectful.

I assumed that was intended as a light-hearted groan at a lame/overdone joke rather than actual disrespect. And I didn't notice any other incidents.

I really can't judge the tone of this comment. If it's sarcastic, then fair enough. However, if you're actually offended by such a slight and insignificant interaction, then I'm a bit flummoxed. Odd inclusion of "female" guest hosts. "Appropriate for a podcast"?! Have you listened to the previous 134 episodes, not to mention countless other podcasts around the web? Rude, mostly good natured, tongue-in-cheek ribbing and mockery is frequently the order of the day. And I don't even think that this was a case of that sort of thing. I agree with Mordion's reading of the exchange and don't feel that hard feelings were present on either end of it.

This seems to be a rather peculiar tipping point that would compel you to make your first forum post. Can you elaborate on how such a trifle would be more grievously disrespectful than typical podcast banter or general eye-rolling social interaction? I apologize if this response has come off as hostile or antagonistic, I don't mean to be inhospitable to intrepid forum newcomers, I'm just confused by text and subtext on display.

I'll allow it.

I am pretty sure Stefan was looking for a moan to his joke.

That eagle clip was amazing. I had to stop the pod to watch it and almost forgot to go back to the pod.

I think chauvinism (or little 'p' patriarchy) goes hand-in-hand with Patriarchy (the leadership style). Some family leaders are not Patriarchal but everyone is chauvinistic.

Very interesting thought excercise in how Ned would deal with teenage Arya. I fully expect he would try and bend her to be a lady. I think Ned would look down about Brienne because of her shifting of gender norms and would try and stop Arya from doing the same. The fact that Brienne got as far as she has is actually pretty amazing.

I hate to ask another is so and so dead or alive, but these Jon chapters reminded me that Stonesnake is unaccounted for. Does anybody think he may turn up back at the wall at somepoint?

Wait don't they have Stonesnake's head? or was that squire whoevers head?

Qhorin sent Stonesnake back through the mountains in the hopes that the difficult terrain would prevent the wildlings from following him. That was the last we heard of him.

Well then I think the answer is obvious.... Stonesnack=Coldhands boom

Coldhands doesn't show up until ASOS so I guess it's possible.

AH COLDHANDS IS REPEATEDLY MENTIONED AS ANCIENT!!
Also this was a great episode. I thought it was a lot of fun to listen to

I went and reread the chapter after I listened. I thought it was interesting that nobody pointed out that Qhorin Halfhand employed a torturer along with a tracker and a mountain climber.

I think the wolf dream Jon has of a tree that smelled like his brother was awesome forshadowing, because at the time you think it's metaphorical or something, but now we know it's actually very literal.

I also bet that the Halfhand brought Jon along with an idea toward both continuing his education as a likely future high officer in the Watch, if the mission went well, and with the knowledge that a young, fresh-faced warg would be more likely to be accepted by the Wildlings as a deserter than an older, more experienced ranger, if it didn't.

Yeah that makes sense to me too, seems like the kind of practical thing a hardened ranger would do.

So Coldhands is a Targ?

*Everyone* is a Targ. Except Aegon.

Fab episode guys! Always enjoy Stefan guesting on the podcast and it was a really interesting discussion.

Golden Eagle Kills Goat was awesome and made me watch golden eagles killing things on YouTube for at least an hour, but the videos of Mongolian hunters using them to kill wolves would have been more relevant to Orell's attack on Ghost... They can kill a wolf easily, might just need a bigger species of eagle to take out a direwolf.

Just now listening, I am behind and jumping around



Yeah! At the beginning there was definitely a disconnect in what patriarch means (which they did address halfway through). Patriarch isn’t really synonymous with father figure, and I don’t know that it implies any kind of responsibility. Robert Baratheon was for sure a patriarch, acting completely within the male-dominated system. Although he pretty much let everyone else do his bidding, and he didn’t care about Joffrey as a person, I think he would have cared a lot more if he knew he didn’t have a legitimate heir. (But to that point I would say Tywin doesn’t cared about his children either so much as he cares about the Lannisters as an entity).

However, it really just comes down to semantics, so despite the disconnect I thought everyone had good points and interesting things to say, I'd like to read the essay. I enjoyed the chapter discussions as well.