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| Episode 68 http://podcastoficeandfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=818 |
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| Author: | brynden [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Episode 68 |
Hi everybody, First of all: Thanks to the podcasters for the epsiode, I enjoyed it. Second: Whoever edited the episode was really fast, thanks for that too! (I assume he/she was quick, because Mimi mentioned something like that in the comments). I would like to pick up one of Amin's thought during the episode of wondering why Robert let Balon on his position. The thought somehow sticks in my mind and I don't understand at all why the Greyjoys were allowed to rule on. If Robb finds terms like: We interchange hostages and afterwards we release the highborn-ones one a year and in the end, if everything is good we release the Kingslayer - why did nobody think of something in that direction??? And the argument that there would have been nobody to rule the Ironborn is simply false. Because if Lord Harlaw (a reasonable man and ruler) manages to keep his seat although everybody calls him the "The Reader" (nothing is more unmanly than reading in Westeros) only because he is THE Harlaw of Harlaw more or less everybody could have been named. In fact it would have been the most clever to name The Reader new ruler. He has the "right" family connection, but the line of Greyjoys would have ended nevertheless. ANd maybe he would have managed to bring the islands nearer to the realm. |
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| Author: | Amin [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Episode 68 |
Good points there. Add to the mix the likelihood that Balon probably started rebuilding the Iron Islands fleet from day one to get it to the current state it was in A Game of Thrones. No restrictions on and monitoring of the fleet? This is a fleet and people that for centuries have pestered the mainland. Keep in mind that they had destroyed the Iron Islands fleet and invaded the islands themselves. This was not some negotiated peace, it was the aftermath of a bloody war that, despite victory, cost the mainland ships and men and probably added to the kingdom's debt load. This was a total surrender similar to Japan at the end of WW2, after, like Japan, the Greyjoys launched an unprovoked sneak attack. Robert may have had a forgiving nature, but this really should have tested even him. Greyjoy did not surrender until it was all over, as compared to say, immediately after losing the fleet, but before the island invasion. While Cersei's suggested genocidal "mountain of skulls" approach is on the other extreme, some sort of ruler change was in order. Tywin Lannister would have likely advocated for something like you suggested, at least something for more consequential than what Robert did, which was basically nothing. Only one hostage? Why not one from every major family on the Islands? They all participated in the rebellion, just the way the Riverland lords rebelled with Robb. [although, just checking right after posting this, it seems there was at least one other hostage - http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Baelor_Blacktyde] And Tywin's insistence may be one important reason why Robert didn't do as suggested. While only ~5/6 years into his marriage, things may have started to go sour with Cersei and the Lannisters by this point and Robert did not listen to Tywin out of spite. A stupid move and one I would have thought Eddard and Jon would have modified. |
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| Author: | FTWard [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Episode 68 |
I would just add to my comments from the episode. It is Robert! Do you doubt that Greyjoy's Rebellion was the single happiest time in his life in the last decade? He is probably hoping for more rebellions not trying to discourage them. Balon is a beaten broken man he would never try anything as long as Ned and Robert were alive. Also they made a big deal in the series about Jaime fighting in Greyjoy's Rebellion but my guess is that if you do the math that is when Myrcella was conceived. |
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| Author: | easttexasdirewolf [ Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Episode 68 |
This is a very interesting event and I think one that will never be explored further because it isn't really relevant to the rest of the story. I would think that Robert's main advisers on what to do with Balon would have been Ned and Stannis. I think it is pretty obvious what Stannis' counsel would be. Ned I'm not so sure about. Ned has no problem executing men that break the law, but on the other hand Ned and Robert had successfully revolted against their king only a few years earlier. I wonder if that would make Ned more sympathetic to Balon, or less. |
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| Author: | MaesterKevin [ Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Episode 68 |
(moved post to chapter re-read subforum that I didn't realize existed until now) |
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| Author: | Xela [ Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Episode 68 |
I believe it was a Boiled Leather podcast with Amin that discussed Robert's nature as a very forgiving ruler. Aside from Targaryens, he was all too willing to let his enemies bend the knee and join the peace. Likely just the most extremely ill founded example of this nature. I like the idea that it may have been compounded by an act of rebellion against the Lannisters. |
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| Author: | The Ragged Man [ Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Episode 68 |
So good to hear Mimi again. |
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| Author: | rpawson [ Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Episode 68 |
Poor Mimi - it's hard when something that you've been a passionate fan of all of a sudden blows up and becomes mainstream. It makes it double tough in this case, since the show adaptation isn't what ignited your passion at all, but the books were. I understand your rage, just don't let it get to you to the point where you find yourself betting against the show, cheering for it's downfall, or spoiling things for TV show fans. That gets you to the same kind of point as the ASOIAF fans who just like to troll George for not writing ASOIAF 24/7, want him to die before he can write the series, and so on. Stay strong. |
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