A Podcast Of Ice and Fire :: View topic

Author:

mimi [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:43 am ]

Post subject:

episode 73.

so i forgot to introduce our guest jon while recording the aftershow, but he got a couple of sentences in and now needs therapy because of how nerve-wracking it was to sit in and me and kyle yelling at each other.

i feel bad that i didn't give him the same "getting to you" spiel that all the other guests hosts get, so this is how i'm going to remedy it: by posting chat transcripts. jon and i listened to the episode together after i published it, and apparently just made a running commentary. read it if you're at all interested in us typing "hahaha" to each other for two hours:

Spoiler: show

chat transcript of me obviously trying to cruise a teenager aside, please feel free to leave comments and feedback about the episode in this thread!

Author:	PieWhoWasPromised [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
You can use the Iron Price at Walmart now, btw.

Author:	jesicka309 [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Wow, it sounds like you guys have so much fun. I'm completely jealous that our timezones do not match up at all, so I can't do it! Boooooo. I haven't listened yet as work got busy.....but I'm sure the table flipping was awesome.

Author:	Anna [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
that dude has a really deep voice for a 14 year old

Author:	Death_Sheep [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
I always enjoy Larry's take on the episodes and the ASOIF world in general. Great episode. The Nerdrage was amaaaazing. The points about the changes were valid, but I am just hoping that they lead to some kinda big payoff. Because I've seen TV shows with so much potential in the first season bite it hard in the second season... I am looking at you Heroes...

Author:	zavrrr [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:13 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
oh man, i also really liked that painted-up horse. "if you want to fuck painted horse, you'll fuck painted horse!" - Cersei

A Podcast Of Ice and Fire http://podcastoficeandfire.com/forum/

episode 73. http://podcastoficeandfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=972	Page 1 of 2

Author:	easttexasdirewolf [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:18 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Death_Sheep wrote: Because I've seen TV shows with so much potential in the first season bite it hard in the second season... I am looking at you Heroes... Alot of shows figure out what works and what doesn't though and improve alot in their second seasons. Hopefully this show will be one of those.

Author:	stevelabny [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Every Littelfinger scene before this week was defensible. Even this week's scene wasn't half as bad as you guys are pretending. What do you think Littlefinger does all day? He's gonna tweak people, he's gonna get cranky and take stuff out on people some days, etc. LF and Varys don't just sit in their rooms all day. The Joff thing also makes perfect sense. 12-13 year old book Joff doesn't understand the implications of Stannis' "rumor" but 14-15 year old show Joff has to understand it and give it credence. The biggest nitpick in the show is the age of Robert Baratheon ... dude is in his 50s and he didn't have a marriage and hair until his mid 30s even though he was the heir to a major house? Even the book version of him being early 20s is a stretch. But yet none of you even mention this ever. And as for Stannis and Mel, I was always under the impression in the books that while they were having sex, Stannis isn't quite aware of it. Or what's resulting from it. He doesn't ever take responsibility for what happened to Renly. I've always believed that Stannis is literally under her spell when they're sexing it up, and I thought the scene in the show was awkward enough to support that. But I do think its hysterical that Larry supports Stannis over Renly, and then immediately announced the same thing every Stannis fan announces "I'm the middle child". Such issues you middle children have. Renly isn't the one with a petty sibling rivalry he needs to set aside, Stannis is.

Author:	Nilan [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Quote: Because I've seen TV shows with so much potential in the first season bite it hard in the second season... I am looking at you Heroes... That's not going to work here, though. It's not a worry. The reason Heroes and other series crap out after season 1 is because the writers haven't planned much beyond the first season. They have that mapped out, then maybe a few ideas for season 2, but it's not very well thought out. You can see this a bit in LOST, where they at least made more coherent plans where there had been none. But even there you can tell, at least by season 5, that what was going on was an awful lot of improvisation. And to be fair, it was AMAZING improvisation. I'm flabbergasted at how they kept it going so well. Here they have everything planned beforehand for years on end. Yes, the source material is not done, but they know how threads are going to end many years ahead of time. Especially since Storm of Swords will take 2 seasons... they literally know right now what they have to depict to allow for what's going to happen 4 years from now. That's a big planning bonus. Listening to the second half of the podcast, I find myself agreeing a fair bit with Kyle on Jeoffrey. I think it makes sense to make Cersei more sympathetic, because it makes the true sociopaths of the show seem few and far between. Cersei on the show is still pretty unsympathetic, but I think the show acquits the character very well as someone who is in a position that she resents, and has a lot of internal anger that she needs to vent and doesn't get much opportunity. Yes, I know Cersei from the books is more villainous. As is Jeoffrey. But I prefer the show's version, because it makes it harder to paint her with the same brush as her son. The show is all about making Geoffrey even worse than in the books, but I like this decision, because it makes you look at the Stark vs. Lannisters less of 'Good family versus Bad family' and more of a mixed picture. However, I totally agree with all the rage on the brothel scene. Stupid, Stupid, STUPID. I hated that scene. One of the worst of the series. If you look at this scene and the Littlfinger sexposition scene from season 1, and you look at the dialogue and what they show people doing, it's almost as if they're trying to say profound things with these brothel scenes on human nature and sexuality. Which is nice, but... they're failing. Each time. But that was really the only change I had a problem with. But it was a BIG problem that I had.

Author:	goodlovin [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Nice work on putting out another podcast so soon after the other two. Not the biggest fan of Larry on the podcasts but I look forward to listening to it none the less. Any chance you are going to restart the reread of clash or storm?

Author:	thenorthremembers [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
I really enjoyed the Podcast. I also enjoyed the show and thought both sides had fair arguments. At first I was annoyed that Joff killed off the bastards but the more I thought about how he is older he must have some sort of idea whats going on or he is completely dillusional. i also think in the series that they want to eventually paint him out as a total psycho mad crazy mofo and baby killers have to be crazy mofo's. i'm undecided on whether I like how cersei has been so far this season. Gonna let it play out before I make any judgements. Littlefinger scene what was the point? About the Voyeurism I seen a post somewhere may have been your facebook page actually that said littlefinger watching the guy get a bj who was watching the guy getting banged was to symbolise how he was watching the watcher. This is pretty plausible but did they have to do it like that? Cum Chin was pretty bad I was like did he? did she? did they just show that? It made me a little uncomfortable. maybe im a prude but it was more the fact that it wasnt done in a humerous way or as part of a humerous show. It was just there to shock people and it didnt really shock me just made it feel like a really creepy perverted show. Littlefinger chat with Ros yeah it was out of character. For some reason the story does ring a bell. As if ive read a similar one in the book maybe not from littlefinger but im not sure ill need to re read at some point. I do think littlefingers character is wrong. But we will see how it goes I hope they can redeem him. Asha Greyjoy. again that scene was more creepy than it was in the book. well for me at least. Asha's witty comebacks made that scene bareable. Although Theons face was brilliant when he figured it was has sister . Also for some reason in my head Asha had shorter hair almost like you would see on a pixxie. She was very hot and sassy. Asha in the show not so much. Balon though as people have said total boss. Jon snow I want keen on that scene cos I wanted the unveiling of the Others to be so cool and best way to do that was to make it mysterious. I think it may have been to remind tv only fans that the others exist and are different from the whites. Gilly was really cool. For anyone who is interested there is a brittish coming of age tv series called Skins. Its a crazy show with teenagers. unlike any other show I had seen on tv at the time which stars both Gilly and Gendry in seasons 1 and 2. They are awesome actors in that. Check it out and you will see why I think the actress was perfect for Gilly Oh before I forget i thought that when melisandre said all that his wife had given him was stillborns and death it was a metaphor for shireens greyscale and she may pop up later. I hope that the case otherwise how will they introduce greyscale later on as I feel it will have a massive impact later on in the books. I think thats my opinions over it was most disappointing episode so far for me personally but its still a pretty good adaption. i think as the show goes on and the child actors get older there will be a few deviations I just want them to make sense.

Author:	zeyik [ Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
This was a great episode. I nearly got into car crash because I couldn’t stop laughing when the rest of the podcast goes after Mimi’s love of underage boys. ROFL. I loved Ashley McDonald’s reference, right on. Ros is annoying because she is not even needed for most of the scenes she is in. The end of episode 1 could have taken place with Littlefinger in one of his brothels. The scene from episode 2 was not needed at all. It is frustrating when they are eliminating characters and plotlines to make it fit in 10 episodes but they introduce their own character that is taking up space Season 1 Scenes _____________________________________ Scene with Tyrion- Fine some random whore with Tyrion Scene with Theon-Fine give some of Theon back story Scene Ros Flashing- Completely worthless Scene with Littlefinger (sexpoistion)- Ruins the betrayal at the end of the episode, paints as a complete asshole and the important information about his back story could have been told to Sansa at the tourney. I don’t mean the revenge plotting, just the story of him and Catelyn. Scene with Pycel- We could have figured this same thing out when Tyrion comes for him and he pisses everywhere. _________________________________________ “You don’t have to scheme when you got dragons.” –Larry. You do when they are still tiny and you are broke as fuck. I was cracking up when Larry starts talking about Stannis’ downfall being a woman, when it will actually be Robb. Kyle where do you get the idea that Joffery knows that Jamie is his father. In the middle of ASOS, he goes after the Lannister altogether when he talks about Robert winning the iron throne and Tywin being a coward. Joff whole character in the books comes from trying to be Robert. The only difference is that his mom is babying him. Eyecandy conversation is hilarious as well. I agree with Kyle on Gilly.

Author:	TheDragonAteMyBaby [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
So, imagine you're a showrunner on an HBO series adapted from a series of well-loved fantasy books. You're a fan of those books and you have a definite take on the themes and subtext contained therein. For instance, although the casual reader may not realize it, you just know there's something sexual going on between two major characters. You want to do your best to remain true to the source material because, you know, you're a fan. But you got these HBO corporate types breathing down your back, saying "listen, I don't want to tell you how to do your job, but this is not TV, it's HBO...if you get my drift. We're a channel that's known for, ah...stretching the boundaries. Now, I understand that one of your characters owns a whorehouse. That's very...intriguing to us. What's that? You can't just throw in random sex scenes because one character happens to own a whorehouse? Hey, we respect your artistic vision. Or course, we're going to be expecting a certain viewership, and we've found, through our extensive market research, that shows that push the boundaries...sexually...tend to average about 500,000 more viewers per week than other similar shows. Oh really? You'd be open to including some sex scenes that were merely implied in the source material? That's great. You are such a team player." So you put in some gratuitous sex scenes, knowing that it'll please your bosses, because after all, you've also talked to the exec's intern, who told you: "Oh yeah, if you weren't gonna put those sex scenes in, my boss was in talks with John Wells...yeah, you know, the guy who produced ER and the shitty seasons of West Wing...anyway, they were gonna bring him in, and he had plans to make the show about Robb Stark. Yeah...something about a Jungian hero quest. He is gonna totally cut out Dany and Jon....Oh yeah, I post on podcastoficeandfire boards all the time." So you breathe a sigh of relief that an actual fan is in charge steering this ship. Man, there are so many narrative threads and stories to service, and they are all so interconnected. You hope you can turn this insanely complicated series into a coherent weekly TV show. Oh yeah, and those sex scenes the network wanted...totally doable. Just don't hand over the show to John Wells. And let's be honest, you don't have the artistic vision of, say, a David Simon. And it's good that you don't - Simon would shape the show in hos own image. How about Westeros as a reflection of the decay of modern institutions? No, that'd be even worse than Wells. You're a craftsman, and you're happy. Only a craftsman, and a fan, can be trusted in adapting something with as massive and unique a vision as that brought into being by George R.R. Martin. Thank god the other fans have you, or else this adaptation could get really screwed up.

Author:	gabal [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
My 2 cents about Joffrey knowing about his parentage - if he didn't know about it why did he sent an assassin to finish off Bran? I won't get into whole Ros debate as I have started a shitstorm of epic proportions when I mentioned her in my episode review at winteriscoming.net

Author:	FTWard [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
gabal wrote: My 2 cents about Joffrey knowing about his parentage - if he didn't know about it why did he sent an assassin to finish off Bran? He overheard King Robert talking about how it would be better if Bran died and he was trying to please his "father".

Author:	jesicka309 [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Tom 162 wrote: Based on the books, I'm a tentative Brienndry shipper, so anything that draws him out from his basic "Life's too complicated, so I'll just slink off to the forge" routine is a good thing. Do you mean the forge? Or "i'm going to go polish my helm in a wanking metaphor?"

Page 1 of 2	All times are UTC - 6 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group https://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	MadChef [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Haha, I love Larry's guest spots. This was the best one yet. Laughed really hard throughout the episode. Great job guys.

Author:	MadChef [ Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Just got done with the after-show part. Don't have much to add that wasn't discussed or debated in the episode, but I did want to chime in that I completely agree with Kyle regarding the Joffrey-bastard-murder change. I think the aging up of the character justifies the change and a 16 year old Joffrey is going to be much more self-aware and attuned to what is happened around him than a 12 year old Joffrey. Him being 16 means that he's also deep in the throws of "teenage rebellion" and is looking for every opportunity to usurp his mother and throw his weight/power around.

Author:	inkasrain [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Accusations of prudishness from other online sources are something I find rather interesting. It doesn't seem entirely logical that people who are "prudish" should not be able to discern between explicit content which contributes to the story and that which does not, especially as these are most likely people who have obviously watched through the first season. I self-identify as (what other people would refer to as) prudish very easily, but I still watch GAME OF THRONES and enjoy it. I'm never overjoyed when the story ventures into the very sexual, but I hardly expect that these elements should be left out when they pull their weight in character and plot development. The best example, which I think is becoming something of a measuring standard for explicitness on the show, is Theon's liaison with the captain's daughter. I didn't like watching that scene personally, but I don't at all object to it on a story level. It was necessary and contributed strongly to Theon's character. (And was, of course, canonical.) It's just an ability to separate between what makes a person uncomfortable personally, and what comes across as jarring within the world of the show, something that most discerning TV viewers should be able to do--and be given credit for doing--regardless of their sociopolitical views on entertainment.

Author:	Amin [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Larry mentioned our podcast 3 times on his latest episode review

Author:	jesicka309 [ Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
inkasrain wrote: Accusations of prudishness from other online sources are something I find rather interesting. It doesn't seem entirely logical that people who are "prudish" should not be able to discern between explicit content which contributes to the story and that which does not, especially as these are most likely people who have obviously watched through the first season. I self-identify as (what other people would refer to as) prudish very easily, but I still watch GAME OF THRONES and enjoy it. I'm never overjoyed when the story ventures into the very sexual, but I hardly expect that these elements should be left out when they pull their weight in character and plot development. The best example, which I think is becoming something of a measuring standard for explicitness on the show, is Theon's liaison with the captain's daughter. I didn't like watching that scene personally, but I don't at all object to it on a story level. It was necessary and contributed strongly to Theon's character. (And was, of course, canonical.) It's just an ability to separate between what makes a person uncomfortable personally, and what comes across as jarring within the world of the show, something that most discerning TV viewers should be able to do--and be given credit for doing--regardless of their sociopolitical views on entertainment. I agree, there's definitely a difference. My biggest problem with all the sexiness isn't because I'm a prude - it's more, if I wanted to watch porn...I would go watch porn. I don't want to watch porn. Sure, if characters are having sex, that's fine. I can roll with that. If the characters are in love, or having a fling, or dirty man-whores who would have sex with anything, that's ok to me. But the blatant sex for the sake of sex turns it into porn, which is the problem with the brothel scenes. After watching episode 2, my father took me aside and said "don't you dare tell me you've been watching that at work on your lunchbreaks. You could get sacked for that, it's pretty much porn." I work at a TV station, and watch GOT on my lunchbreaks. Our TV station quite often shows M rated films for the midday movie, that involve characters having sex, so it's not the sex that's a problem, just the explicit graphic nature of it. I'm not a prude, but I object to porn being needlessly inserted into my fantasy TV. Hence, why they should stop with the brothel scenes.

Author:	brynden [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:59 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
overall good episode. heard it while running my part of a marathon relay. that is weird i can tell you when mimi's nerd-rage gets worse and she starts to complain on Stannis' or Renly's haircolor (THAT IS NOT BLACK!) I think we can officially call her Chase from time to time...

Author:	Slew [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
jesicka309 wrote: My biggest problem with all the sexiness isn't because I'm a prude - it's more, if I wanted to watch porn...I would go watch porn. I don't want to watch porn. Sure, if characters are having sex, that's fine. I can roll with that. If the characters are in love, or having a fling, or dirty man-whores who would have sex with anything, that's ok to me. But the blatant sex for the sake of sex turns it into porn, which is the problem with the brothel scenes. I agree with this 100%. just listened to the podcast this morning, trying to catch up. I love Larry on the podcast. Getting his insights on how he thinks things are going to turn is really cool. Also, the scar on Jorah's neck was from the fight whilst crap was going down in the tent with Drogo. I didn't even notice that in this episode, was too busy watching sweat run down it, lol. Definitely dreamy. Also wanted to comment on something Amin said, but now I can't remember, was thinking it was my favorite line from any episode so far, lol....can't remember though.

Author:	stevelabny [ Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
easttexasdirewolf wrote: stevelabny wrote: Every Littelfinger scene before this week was defensible. I would like to hear you defend the scene between Littlefinger and Cersei from last week's episode, The North Remembers. I think it was completely out of character for book Littlefinger and TV Littlefinger. He challenged Cersei to her face, which is completely contrary to his "I'm not going to beat them, I'm going to fuck them" philosophy from last season. Hmm, I guess this place doesn't auto-notify for responses. Sorry. Anyway... In the books we barely ever see Littlefinger interact with POV characters, but surely he interacts with the other power-players regularly. How does he keep them from considering him a threat? We saw a peek of it in his scenes with Varys last season. Sure, the two of them are having a mutual respect session... but at the same time, Littlefinger is taking little shots at Varys. He also took one at Renly during the joust. People know Littlefinger knows stuff, they just don't know how much or what he wants to do with that info. If he immediately grabs little pieces of ammunition and acts like a petty douche, the other players look at him as a minor annoyance and nothing more. They don't think he has plans, they think he's trying to get information so he can snipe at you. Surely he blackmails the smallfolk, but he would never dare do such a thing in the Red Keep. When he goes to Cersei, its the same thing. Stannis is spreading the rumor. But even before that Ned knew. If Littlefinger never mentions it, you might wonder how long he's known, or why he kept it secret. But as soon if Littlefinger waits until right before it becomes common knowledge and then uses it as a comeback, he's again saying "I'm not a threat, look at me, I make petty attacks" After Cersei tells him off, she won't give him another thought. He's been put in his place, he's not a threat. He came blabbing to me as soon as he found out. As for the "if Cersei killed him, he'd be dead" idea.. yes, he would be. But we're using book information about how unhinged Cersei becomes. When Robert was alive, she never would have tried that move on Littlefinger. Same if Tywin was in King's Landing. But now that Robert is dead and she feels empowered, and now that Joff is already proving harder to handle than expected...she's already fraying at edges. Littlefinger expected an angry reaction from her, he did NOT expect her to come inches from killing him. There is no way he could have expected that. But now he knows. And knowing, as they say, is half the battle. But he survived, and he got what he wanted. More information about Cersei, and her believing that HE IS NOT A THREAT. The books constantly explain how fragile life is and how one wrong move can mean your death. Varys explains to Ned that he COULD release him from the Black Cells, but he won't because it would be a fatal mistake. Even Varys and Littlefinger, as mastermindy as they are, are not immune to the "any step can be your last". They are not perfect. They make mistakes. They've been lucky enough to survive them so far. They're good enough to avoid even more. A lot of people expect Sansa to eventually remove Littlefinger from the board. If this happens, will it mean Littlefinger wasn't a mastermind? No, it will just mean he made a fatal mistake. The same way Ned was "honorable" but his last words were lies he didn't believe. Littlefinger can't hide in the shadows. He has to deal with these people. So he has to hide directly in front of their faces. And the best way to do that is to make himself appear as a minor annoyance and no real threat.

Author:	Amin [ Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Slew wrote: Also wanted to comment on something Amin said, but now I can't remember, was thinking it was my favorite line from any episode so far, lol....can't remember though. Oh too bad. Guess you'll have to listen to the episode again sometime

Author:	easttexasdirewolf [ Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:00 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
When yall have Larry on again you should ask him if he read A Game of Thrones after watching season 1 and if so what he thought of the book compared to the show.

Author:	Tom 162 [ Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Good podcast episode! I share the Littlefinger rage. Sometimes less is more, but in this case more is less. They'd've been better off keeping him mild and inscrutable, like the Dominic Greene character in Quantum of Solace, for example. On the positive side, I like the embellished dialogue they've given to Gendry. Based on the books, I'm a tentative Brienndry shipper, so anything that draws him out from his basic "Life's too complicated, so I'll just slink off to the forge" routine is a good thing.

Author:	mimi [ Tue Apr 24, 2012 5:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
Tom 162 wrote: mild and inscrutable. perfect littlefinger description. this is exactly how i found him in the books, for the most part.

Author:	Tom 162 [ Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: episode 73.
The actual forge. The helm will just have to stay horny.