SEND IT TO ME! ARGH!!! Why aren't I home right now!! (southeast PA)

OMG! you wonderful, evil genius - how does one aquire this deviously delicious sounding treat?

Edit: on a side note I found this recipe ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/ameri ... with_86498 ) and will now have no choice but to attempt it this weekend (stay tuned for the results)

on second thought...this recipe with candied bacon....my head is about to explode...

Even as someone who was by no means as harsh on Season 2 as Elio and Linda, I really liked hearing from them this episode. It was an important reminder that--despite having read and re-read ASOIF--there are those who are more than fans but true analysts of the text. I especially liked hearing about Elio discuss the romantic elements of ASOIF.

I look forward to reading the essay in the The Beyond the Wall collection, you guys!

Despite the entire site being hard on the eyes, I go to Westeros for news and updates. That's about it. Some of the attitudes on the forums are just plain comical. They reinforce every nerd stereotype. The books are fun, in part, because they are so complicated and rich. There is much to discuss and debate. I would prefer to discuss these matters at a party, rather than some judgemental forum. And APOIAF is definitely a party!

True dat Valyrian Neil! I just don't get why people need to get so heavy about it all. I mean - I read the books and I definitely have my take on things, but if you have a different view why does that diminish me and my understanding and response to the artwork? Why go to forums just to find people who you think are "wrong" and rag on them?

As for Elio and Linda, they've done so much for us fans it terms of documenting/dissecting the texts but also providing a conduit to GRRM that we have to be thankful. That said, as much as they really do come off as lovely on APOIAF, from the Tumblr I did get kind of turned off by the sense of entitlement - as "friends of George" - to interpret and indeed legislate on interpretations of his work. But I really don't want to criticise because I think it just must be an occupational hazard of being a full-time fan, so wedded to the work that it becomes hard to just to let things slide.

Maybe before anyone writes anything on a ASOIAF forum, they should take a tip from our podcast hosts and drink a few glasses of Dornish wine, eat a few lemoncakes, relax and enjoy sharing views rather than bringing each other down!

I agree that they can get a little intense, but as a rule I don't think they (generally) are harsh on people who they disagree with about theories. They're harsh on fan fic, which I completely support, or in response to people attacking them. It's possible I'm not paying enough attention though

I'd totally back Fan Fiction that was like the Podcast Art Project. Funny storys about Blood Oranges, Creaking Doors, Gay Blackfish stuff etc.

Well, if the MUSH of Ice and Fire is okay...

Yeah it is, cause GRRM said it was.

Which I appreciate; however, it is fan fiction, regardless of what it happens to be called.

(In addition to which, fan fiction is not illegal, which makes Martin's edicts a bit hair-splity in my opinion. While there is plenty to be said for respecting the author's wishes, those wishes are not binding in a practical sense.)

Right, but the distinction isn't between fanfiction and a MUSH, it's between something that has been given permission by the author and something that has explicitly been forbidden. It's not that hard to respect the man's wishes.

what is MUSH?

It's basically a text based role playing game. Here's a link to the FAQ for the ASoIaF MUSH that Elio and Linda run.

edit: If you were just asking about the acronym, it's usually Multi User Shared Hallucination, or something like that.

Unless you feel, as I do, that the author does not actually have the right to restrict the non-profit, joy-based integration of his art to the mediums he chooses. (Fanart: Cool. MUSH: Swell. Fanfiction: YOU BAD PERSON YOU.)

For those who are moved to celebrate and re-experience art via transformative works, being told not to write fanfiction is a bit like being invited to a barbecue and only allowed to eat the hot dogs. ("Why can't I eat the hamburgers?" the guests ask. "Because I worked really hard on them," their host says, "And you're not my friend if you eat them.")

Although I don't believe it much matters, I will say that I have not written ASOIAF-inspired fanfiction myself and I rarely read it. However, I fully support the right of those who are moved to do so to write whatever they please, as long as they make no attempt to monetarily profit from said fanwork. I don't tell artists how to produce their art; I'd appreciate not being told how I may and may not synthesize said art into my life.

Though I also find GRRM's stance on fan fiction to be rather odd, I don't think that's a great metaphor as it makes GRRM seem like he's deliberately taunting people with hamburgers just to be mean. I don't understand why GRRM thinks that a persistent, public roleplaying game is significantly different from fan fiction, but I don't think it's a distinction he made up to irritate people.

Oh, I'm sure GRRM doesn't feel that his distinctions are arbitrary, and I don't mean to imply that his goal is to frustrate fans deliberately. However, given that (as far as I am aware) fanart, MUSHs and fanfiction are of identical legal status, it is understandable that fans who are inclined to the last would look at his policies on the former two and feel rather bemused. (Which is probably compounded when fanworks are not only disallowed but frequently derided; but that's another bowl of brown.)

So I take it that no one would like if I posted my new ASOIAF novella? It's a conversation between Coldhands and the Bloodraven. Basically, Bloodraven is tired of wildlings using Weirwoods as glory holes. He hopes Bran can take his place before Bran is aware of the controversial practice.

I don't really get the problem with Fanfiction but I'm probably being naive. So long as someone doesn't write something blatantly using your characters and then SELL the result, isn't it okay?

I guess this brings me to the wider point about how far Creators own their creations when they have entered the public realm and shared consciousness, and how far a creator stating that something or other "is so" and something else or other is anathema (apart from legal issues) should be taken seriously.

The classic example on either side of this argument is George Lucas. I love how he's embraced fan-movies and even provides sound FX etc to amateur film-makers. On the other hand his attempt to control how we engage with his work, by forbidding sales of the original trilogy in its original form, strikes me as an abuse of his position as Creator.

But the point is that fanart is a visualization of a textual medium and the MUSH is permitted, for whatever reason, by his relationship with Elio and Linda. Fanfiction is a rewriting a book, not writing about a painting or, and it can be said to endanger the canonical universe which he does in fact own in its entirety. It's not really worth an argument though

I'm not certain, but I don't think that's accurate. I think Elio and Linda first met GRRM when they contacted him to ask for his permission to run their MUSH.

I would wildly speculate that the distinction for GRRM is that (considerations of his own IP aside) he likes roleplaying games, and thinks fan fiction is lame.

Yeah he is on the record saying that fan fiction is a terrible way for writers to get their start and a really bad thing to do in general

Isn't the TV show basically just sanctioned fan fiction?!

As a veteran fanficcer of nearly 10 years, I fully support fanfiction of all kinds. Quite frankly George just doesn't get it. He has his wishes, which are not based on law but opinion, and you can choose whether or not you wish the follow them. I my self equate his desire to stamp out fanfiction to plain up thought police. I love his books but he can stay the fuck out of my mind and imagination and everything that comes out of it.

The comment on it being lazy writing? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! You've got to be kidding me. Lazy world building, I'll give you, but a hardcore fanficcer could run circles around your typical author when it comes character development. Fanficcers don't have the luxury of simply telling our readers something with the expectation that they'll believe it, a fanficcer has to convince them.

His entire stance drives me insane.


I personally like to work on crack pairings. it's a challenge but i fully believe with enough work you can get any two characters believably together and that is not easy writing, it's a mind boggling puzzle that has helped improve my writing skills immensely. In many ways fanfic pushes your creativity, but it's a different kind.


anyways, it's a topic i'm passionate about.

Dear Ashley,

I could not quote only one part of this because you are amazing and also right. Viva la fic!

Sincerely,
inkasrain

regarding westeros.org, I'm gonna have to side with Winter's Lion and brynden here. I remember joining that forum when I was still really REALLY into the whole series(quite a few years ago) and I distinctly remember it being hostile and unwelcoming. actually drove me away from the whole asoiaf fandom for a while!

I don't have anything to add to the discussion on fanfic other than....mmmm, barbecue. mmmm hotdogs....hamburgers....

still not sure what the hell a MUSH is, basically like a 'lets pretend' teaparty that girls play when they are little, but set in Westeros?

I have accounts both here and at westeros, but you guys seem a bit more... fun? Westeros was a little too intense for me. I don't post that much, but I definitely enjoy reading and occasionally posting here.

anyone from busan is welcome in my book. i feel like if one wanted to have a university style class on asoiaf a resource like westeros.org would be invaluable. but for a more relaxed atmosphere with an emphasis on fun i also prefer mimi's basement......i mean house manwoody

Im claiming Busan in the name of House Manwoody.

Love you guys and gals. Yeah I dont know what a MUSH is either.

We are definitely a place for fans that are....i dont want to say laid back because the fans aren't laid back but the atmosphere here is more laid back.

A MUSH is just a roleplaying game, like Dungeons and Dragons or whatever, except played online, usually with a heavier emphasis on the roleplaying.