Listening now... will comment later...

But agree with the assessment that this is the weakest episode of the season.

Still istening but regarding Amin's pass/fail lemoncake question to Kyle, this is my general non scientific scale

Lemoncakes - Grade
5.0 = A+
4.5 = A
4.0 = B+
3.5 = B
3.0 = C+
2.5 = C
2.0 = D+
1.5 = D
1.0 = F
BoB = F-

The Climb was a gentleman's 2.0

Given the liberal use of lemon cake divisions, I've always wondered if it would just be easier to use a lemon cake scale of 10 rather than 5.

You generally can map everything to a scale of whatever you want.

I love the 5-LC-Scale, and the sometimes strangely divided lemoncakes. The most awesome until today was Amin's 4.62 on Season2Ep5-The Ghost of Harrenhal (yes I know such things just kidding - at the moment I sometimes gather old data from the episode-ratings, maybe that will be part of the stats in the future)

4.62!!!! Haha.

I like that way of looking at it very much...

Great Podcast. Critical but not over the top.

Now to add to the discussion.

Jon Snow on top of the wall and lack of men. I believe that Mance tells Tormund to take 50? men with him to go over the wall. So I am expecting to magically see a group of 40 or so with Jon on the ground... I could be wrong on that point. Need to verified.

Red Wedding. My take was that Tywin just made deals with the Boltons and the Freys separately. The details of how Boltons/Freys were going to play out their deception was up to them. So long as they switched sides. I believe that Tywin is even a bit disgusted with the way the whole thing went down in the books.

Kyle's point of the characters not doing anything is fairly accurate from a plot perspective. But the was a lot of movement character wise. Creating/strengthening connections with non readers to these Reading a bunch of reviews, people are now finally beginning to care about Jon's story. And it is setting things up for the final run.

Completely agree with Ashley on Margaery needing to have a reason to want to kill Joffrey. Right now she has him wrapped around her finger. She needs to learn that she really can't control him... That moment should be in episode 10 to complete the arc properly and close out the King's Landing stuff for the season.

Finally Ros... I don't think the writers really put an emphasis on pleasing the book readers. Or even really pay attention specifically to us. They might know we hate the character, but they are not writing the show for us. They are writing it for the Millions of casual viewers of the show that remember the characters as Khaleesi, or the Queen, or the red lady. They know they can't please the die hards/purists and that if they did, the show couldn't be as successful as it is.

I made a thing inspired by this episode's discussion of Melisandre traveling across Westeros...

If you don't get the reference:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Film/Teeth

Oh man , I really like this one. I gave it a 5/5 (this is like that 3rd ep in entire series i gave a 5/5). The lack of plot movement wasn't an issues for me , as a book reader we know everything , i'm mostly watching the show to get more out of the story and understand it better. This Episode delivered that, it was like someone found a deleted chapter that martin thru in the recycle bin, i mean it in a good way.

Wow, I actually liked the episode when I watched it--admitting to its weaker moments but still loving the wall climbs, Littlefinger's monologue, and a few other scenes--but you've convinced me, it's the worst episode of the [otherwise fantastic] season. I was totally fine with the Gendry-Brotherhood changes. It consolidates Edric into a character we already know and care about, therefore making us way more invested in his fate, and we see the Brotherhood gradually compromising its values, taking it down the road towards Lady Stoneheart's leadership. However, they've turned an awesome character like Blackfish into a douche, and they're us of our love and sympathy for Robb and Cat, which will eventually lesson the impact of the Red Wedding (attacking Casterly Rock makes no sense, his decision to reclaim the North was what made his murder so tragic). Finally, however, the dinner with Bolton was such a wasted opportunity. No clear reason is given as to why he lets Jaime continue to King's Landing. If Brienne was abetting treason, isn't he doing the same. He knows Robb wants him back in Riverrun, so what the hell. It makes no sense within the context of the show. It should have been a more subtle conversation about Tywin's eventual victory, and where the hell were Jaime's "regards". Such a wasted scenes, book-ended by so much filler material. I did really like the Wall scenes though. I'm invested again in Jon's character.

Bolton hasn't married Fat Walda and he isn't holding Big/Little Walder hostage so he could be walking into dangerous situation himself so Tywin would have to tell Walder not to harm him. I agree, I found that Tywin was trying to justify himself to Tyrion in the following chapter; about the Red Wedding and the Sack of KL.

I imagine Margaery finding out before that, maybe ep 7 or 8? I can see ep10 having Joffrey defying Tywin at the meeting following the RW as the final straw of his disobedience. I'm sure that is something they have been saving all season for us. I don't even think they've been in the same room as each other this year!

You know this episode was not as negative as I thought it would be. Which I was thankful for. I believe it exactly what Amin aims for fair and honest criticism.

Let's note that this ambiguity is exactly as in the novel. No reason for Bolton to let - let alone escort! - Jaime go back to King's Landing. Only later do we learn of the RW.

I loved this episode. And agree strongly about all your talk on the Beric, it's incredibly irritating what they did to the brotherhood

Indeed. I've always taken it largely that Roose Bolton's been playing his own game in many ways throughout the story in order to strengthen his own political position, and has a keen nose for telling when the winds blowing the other way and turning accordingly. Earlier on in the season there was that scene where Karstark said to him the war was lost when Robb married Talisa. Roose is smart enough to know the old man Karstark was on the money there, and that the best way to avoid ending up decorating the walls of Kings Landing when the war is actually lost is by bending the knee to Tywin Lannister.

yeah he's a scarily practical dude