Great episode. I like the animal biology classes we have on here . Also, this confirmed my dislike for the Targaryens as a quasi-divinely ordained ruler class in ASOIAF. About the whole killing dragons question I'd say it makes sense for the oppressed smallfolk to kill the dragons because they are ultimately a tool of tyranny, even thoughone should not kill living animals but it is understandable to me why they'd do it. If assholes like the Mad King can have access to these creatures that's a bad day for everyone. Regarding the question of whether or not to use dragons during war, I'd say that's the definition of asymmetric warfare and if the Targaryebn ruler is some bloody tyrant, my guess is everyone would be far less ok with the Targaryens having access to these creatures and making use of them. Anything else is just another "might is right" mentality to me personally but I don't know what everyone else thinks?

NB: my guess is a dragon recognizes the rider by his/her smell which is familiar and so I don't think that there is a magic connection unless it is eplicitly stated in the text, which does not seem to be the case as far as I know.

Happy to hear Ashley's voice again on the podcast

How I imagine Ashley...

Love the idea of the DeVry institute of knighthood!

Happy new year from Belgium everyone .

All aboard the Gay Abandon! That was great. So fun hearing all 4 of you guys together again.

I still can't figure out how you manage to Skype without constantly interrupting and talking over each other. Must be Amin's ninja editing skills.

FTWard, you are like a font of awesome internet pics. Was that first one from Arrested Development?

P.S. Happy New Year to all of the countries between Australia and Britain! As for America, quit living in the past.

It may not sound like it, but this thing took me over a week to edit: over 3 hours per raw hour, spread out over a week (usual rule is at least 2 hours editing for each raw hour, 2 to 1 ratio). Would have been somewhat easier if I just cut out the massive aftershow segments, but I thought it had relevant chat in there.

However, we are used to talking with each other, around each other, and some tolerable overlap. . If it was a new group like a BOK or VOK episode, it would have taken even longer to edit.

Yeah, VoK definitely needs to work on that. Our PatQ episode was mayhem (though enjoyable mayhem). I guess we just need to learn each others vocal rhythms, although it's a bit tougher with so many accents.

Also, I totally agree with your point about the Andals slowly reasserting control over the realm, and the old pre-Aegon dynastic struggles of the South, starting to pervert the Targaryen's concept of a unified realm.

Yes, from the AD pilot.

Really enjoyed this episode. All the hosts were great.

Excellent episode. It was great to have all four of the hosts for this one.

Aegon III didn't actually have the last dragons killed. They just died out during his reign since he had them cooped up in small cells after what happened to his mother. From the Ice and Fire wiki:

This was fantastic and hilarious, and it was so nice to hear all four of you! Ashley stop putting yourself down about not knowing enough, you brought the knowledge this episode, although the fact that you have crushes on Sandor, Victarion and now Daemon makes me slightly concerned I guess I just can't get past killing children, I'm weird that way.

I am amazed that you guys are so pro dragons though, I know that it's technically the humans using them that are at fault here, but they are such agents of destruction and misery in this story. I am unashamedly team Smallfolk though, and I could completely understand why they wanted the dragons dead.

If the Maester conspiracy about the dragons is true, I can definitely sympathise and get behind that point of view. Humans are just too awful to have something as destructive as dragons as weapons. Maybe it's unfair of me, Dany can't help who her family is, but this makes me pretty anti team Dany for the iron throne to be honest. I kind of hope she dies using the dragons to save the realm from the Others - I feel like the fact that she can't have children to continue the dynasty (although that might not be true now) kind of foreshadows her being the last great Targaryen rather than having a future in restoring the Targaryens to power.

this was a really good episode. it was nice to hear everybody together again. as far as dragon riding goes, I would say theres no validity to the idea that you need targaryen blood. the targaryens were pretty backwoods as far as valyrian nobles went so im sure there were dozens to hundreds of other valyrian noble families with dragons of their own in the freehold. so ive always assumed that if there was a blood component to dragon riding it was valyrian not targaryen. hopefully twoiaf will clear a lot of this stuff up.

i had a lot of fun recording this episode, and reading this novella makes me want to dive back into adwd for more subtext and parallels.



you make a v good point. reading about dragons after their memories become legends by present day westeros, i think i develop a knee-jerk FUCK YEAH DRAGONS response.

It might sound a bit harsh, but I'm kind of glad they're gone. I realize they're just animals, and it's the evil Targaryen's who have turned them into medieval warheads, but they give too much power to individuals. At least armies require a level of strategy and discipline. The commanders need to take into account food and resources, and measure the potential loss or gains of each conflict. Whereas one psycho (Aumund) can mount a dragon, and burn dozens of towns and villages to the ground on a whim, with basically no threat to his person.

I'm thinking Daenerys is more like the last gasp of House Targaryen, rather than its glorious return. The world is simply never going to advance while dragons continue to exist (along with all of the magic, pyromancy, necromancy, and shadow-binding their precedence permits). It just creates too much instability. I hope at least they get released back into the wild (maybe Valyria or Asshai), where they can live in peace, away from people.

But if Dany does conquer Westeros, with her three huge dragons, and reforms the Targaryen dynasty, whose to say we won't see an identical Dance in another hundred or so years, when two of Dany great-grandchild each decide they want the throne, and burn Westeros to make their point.

Great episode! It was really nice to hear the Amin, Ashley, Kyle, and Mimi back together again.

I liked the recap vein that y'all took. I love both the nerdgasm that was the VoK episode and the much more methodical nature of APOIAF.

With regards to the relationship between the rider and dragon I think Amin said it best where it is not Perth-like but there is something more than the man/dog relationship. I still do not believe that magic (in the sense of spells) exist in the ASOIAF world but there are more active natural elements. A small degree of telepathy between dragons and riders is a believable force in the world.

Kyle, please keep dropping your animal knowledge on us!

I was also wondering to what degree the dragons are sentient if that makes sense, if they are just 'normal' animals (for dragons) and how the bonding between dragon and rider works. I don't know if you necessarily need to be a Targaryen, but maybe having blood of Valyria has something to do with it? I think I'm biased because I've read so much fantasy where dragons are much more explicitly magical than they are in this series.

I feel like I need to reread all of Dany's chapters now. Has she only bonded with Drogon? What would happen if she tried to ride the other dragons? I feel like reading this story has just opened up more questions about this stuff, not that that's a bad thing!

Ok. Just finished listening. The podkicker app saved me. Great episode, very fun. I kinda wished you guys discussed about the family tree especially the connection between the Velaryons and Targaryens. Am pretty sure Laena was Laenor' s sister, daughter of Corlys and Rhaenys. I made my friend make a Targaryen family tree - connecting all marriages and all - but even Awoiaf is not too complete on the connection between both houses. It went tricky when he reached Rhaenys and Baelon and Viserys. Also on the Great Council 92 and 101 on the inheritance votes. Or maybe this stuff should be a separate episode I am still confused why Corlys picked Addam for his heir when he already had grandaughters via Laena (assuming she was his daughter)

Glad you guys pointed out the Rhoynar thing. Yeah that's so weird. And Gay Abandon was just a LOL moment. Also the 'absence of the Martells (for obvious reason) , Greyjoys (red herring for me) and hilariously the Baratheons.

I believe that even Dany would be in big trouble if she tried that. Here's her response that I was thinking of during this podcast



Good points about the Targaryen vs Valyrian blood in this thread. I guess only the latter would be required, if some sort of blood is required. Unless each Valyrian family bred dragons that were particularly attuned to their own bloodline, then Targ blood itself would be crucial in that situation. But we have no particular evidence of that.

Amin with the knowledge as always And I think he named Adam as heir cause the others were targs cause they were the Green queens kids, right?

Was going to throw out these notes, but instead going to put in a larger binder and keep all my ASOIAF notes together in case I need them for future episodes

https://twitter.com/JavadiAmin/status/4 ... 16/photo/1

https://twitter.com/JavadiAmin/status/4 ... 92/photo/1

I love the fact you still use actual paper notes.

My favorite moment from APOIAF has to be from an early episode during a AGoT chapter recap, where you excitedly piped up "I've got more evidence for my Catelyn/Theon bedslave theory!" accompanied by the rustling of notes. The exasperation of the other hosts was just icing on the cake.

hey ashley could you post a link to that targaryan family tree that you were using?

also post a link to the westeros discussion thread where u found those theories?


thanks


good episode.

Though Ashley I may not be, here are a couple from the TPatQ-thread, linked by Erinyes and mrkorb.

Here is a more visual one, it helpfully incorporates many of Amok's portraits.

This one is more complex, but also harder to wrap your head around.

Great episode guys! Informative and hilarious. At points it felt like I was listening to you guys study for a fictional history exam, which made the whole thing even funnier.

thanks!

yeah it's was the second one I was using. I want a full sized poster of that for my room and a little black marker hanging from it for annotations. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/to ... iscussion/ this was the westeros thread.

My favourite episodes have always been the novella breakdowns. Love that shit. Also hearing Mimi shout "suck my dick" is always nice. (Don't you fucking judge me!)

I hope Martin does more of these historical account. Luuurrrrvvvveeee them.

That was an awesome episode! I wish I would have taken the time to write names down in a notebook or something while I was reading because it was hard to keep it all straight, but I listened to this episode right after I finished reading so it was great to have the events/characters all broken down.