May 26, 2009
Episode 25: Wight Fight
Episode 25 for the week of May 24th, in which we examine chapter 53 of A Game of Thrones (focusing far too much on Lord Mormont’s nude scene), do not know how to pronounce Neil Gaiman’s name, and finally have an appropriate outlet for our video game geekfest.
Note: Despite anything we said to the contrary in this episode, listening to A Podcast of Ice and Fire while making love is a terrible, terrible idea and will most likely result in infertility and sadness all around.
51 Comments, Comment or Ping
Anonymous
I’ve always pronounced it “gay-man.”
May 26th, 2009
John
And that’s exactly how you are supposed to pronounce it 🙂
See this vid for confirmation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJ08G6fQEkU
May 27th, 2009
Chase
Here’s a non-chipmunked version of Mimi reading the erotic fanfic. No matter what I did, Audacity would chipmunk that clip if I tried to move it into the main track.
http://podcastoficeandfire.com/wp-content/uploads/fanfic.mp3
May 26th, 2009
John
What a SHOCKING LACK OF KNOWLEDGE CHASE!
Nah, nothing major. Just that Coldhands doesn’t have blue eyes:
“He wore blacks, like a brother of the Watch, but he was pale as a wight, with hands so cold that at first I was afraid. The wights have blue eyes, though, and they don’t have tongues, or they’ve forgetten how to use them.”
also:
“The shout cut through the night, though the shrieks of a thousand ravens. Beneath the trees, a man muggled head to heels in mottled blacks and grays sat astride an elk. “Here,” the rider called. A hood shadowed his face.
…The rider wore no glove. His hand was black and cold, with fingers as hard as stone.”
No mention of blue eyes in the description of Coldhands. Also, Sam implies that he doesn’t have them.
May 27th, 2009
dancer
In which book is that? I really don’t remember reading a description like that.
May 29th, 2009
Chase
Sam is rescued by Coldhands at the end of Sam 3, Chapter 47 in Storm of Swords. His blackened, cold hands are noted but since his face is hooded, there’s no mention of any blue eyes.
Later – in Sam 4, Chapter 57 – when Sam escorts Bran, Jojen, Meera and Hodor through the door under the Nightfort, he describes Coldhands as John posted the first paragraph.
So hey, apparently he doesn’t have blue eyes.
Jun 2nd, 2009
DocBean
I hope the game is made like the Elder Scrolls games. Daggerfall, Morrowind, and Oblivion.
Those were all great games, and would lend themselves well to Game of Thrones. Toss out all the vampires, zombies, magic wielders, endless dungeons and caves, and they would be more fun.
Add in some jousting, duels, and Westrosi Homelands to pick from, and you’ve got a great game.
May 27th, 2009
DocBean
it would be nice if the story were to go along as you do your thing. Like maybe you’re a hedge knight, and you hear reports about a boar killing the king, and the Hand getting executed…..
You could end up joining with Lannister, or Stark Armies, or decide to stay out of the mix altogether, but meet up with bandits and Wildlings, or do something bad and end up on the wall…..
DAMN!!! This could be a GREAT GAME!
but sadly, it probably won’t.
May 27th, 2009
Friend of Show
Actually, Jorah had the family sword and left it before he fled because of shame.
May 27th, 2009
Stalkroach
The fanfiction part was highly amusing. Now I won’t be able to read Ned’s chapters without thinking, “Straddle me, Ned.” Good job with the rest of the episode, too.
May 27th, 2009
Brian
Early in the Second book when Jorah tells Dany about his trophey wife, he mentions that his father had already taken the black. So then why is Mormont on the wall??
May 28th, 2009
mimi
it is my understanding that jeor took the black to free up lands and title for jorah. i am probably wrong.
May 28th, 2009
Chase
Nah, that’s it. Why he couldn’t just, you know, step down without having to take the black is beyond me… Middle ages derp a derp
May 28th, 2009
Sebastian
Thanks for another entertaining episode, glad Amin could make it back! So.. what happened to Chris? Pacemaker give out?
May 28th, 2009
Jill
Good podcast…I am kind of with Chase on the whole Gaiman defending Martin thing. I think authors do owe their fans something. Owe may not be the right word but they do need people to read their work. Without the fans reading the books what is the point of writing the books? I guess you could write for the personal satisfaction of it, but I would think that most writers actually want people to read their stuff. Just a thought…..
May 29th, 2009
Apocalypse Dan
It’s one of those things like autographs and fan attention. Is it right to interrupt Jessica Alba when she’s at dinner with her family, no. Is it okay to stop her in the street and tell her that you think she really brought something special to Sin City, yes. Celebrities do owe their fame to fans, and they do carry a debt even if most/many don’t want to acknowledge or accept it. Martin is a passive aggressive prick who will continue to drag his ass as long as people pester him about it because he’s probably got writer’s block and doesn’t know how to express the fact that he may never finish. IMHO, he should sit his ass down and finish the damned book like he told us he would 3 years ago. But, the more people who tell him to, the more he’ll wander off and play with toys and visit cons. Damnit.
May 31st, 2009
Split
My issue with people getting cranky over the delay in the new book stems from your analogy Dan. I don’t think of Martin as a celebrity. I think of him as an author. To me, the two are different. He’s not running around seeking my attention. As for celebrities (or authors) owing their fans/reader something. I disagree. Some would say they seek out the lives they get. Maybe that’s more true for an actor. But an author? I doubt when Martin began writing so many years ago, his aim was to travel the country on some sort of celebrity tour to meet all his readers. Martin doesn’t owe me anything. When the book comes out, he’ll get my money. Not till then. That’s the deepest my relationship will develop with Martin. If the book never happens, so be it, someone else get’s my money.
Jun 1st, 2009
Apocalypse Dan
I disagree. He makes all these Con appearances because he’s a celebrity. -I- am certainly not the guest of honor at umpteen hundred conventions this year, while Martin is. And I do believe he does owe us something, he was the one who announced this would be a lengthy series, then stalled out on book 3½. Is it tacky to question whether he’ll “pull a Jordan”? Perhaps. But is it unprofessional of him to take 3+ years to write half a book when his initial statement was closer to 6 months? Absolutely. Other authors seem to do just fine releasing a book every 12 months, or even every 24 months. Admittedly, a lot of them are crap, but a lot are exceptionally good too. George isn’t done yet because he won’t sit his ass down in a chair and write, plain and simple. He’s famous because his fiction is nigh-legendary. Plenty of authors write far more than he does and don’t have anywhere near the renown GRRM does. He’s famous because we, his fans, love his work. And just like fans of a sports franchise should expect results from their new 5 million dollar player, we should be allowed to expect results from arguably the best author living. p.s. – he’s not famous for writing Dunk & Egg or Wild Cards stuff either. BICHOK. Butt in chair, hands on keyboard.
Jun 1st, 2009
Split
Yikes… 🙂
I’m not sure if you’ve read it, but your starting to sound like a certain Annie Wilkes in Misery. I’m wondering how far you are from sawing off off GRRM’s foot.
😮
Anyhoo. I gotta say, I’m still don’t think GRRM owes anything to the reader. It sounds like your saying there is some sort of social contract between GRRM and the readers regarding the timing of the books. Would you also say he should be held to a higher literary standard? If he failed to meet this higher standard, would you continue to read his work? I’m asking this because I often wonder what keeps people impatient with his pace from breaking away from his work. If your unsatisfied with the service he has provided you, why stay loyal?
Jun 2nd, 2009
Lauren
“If your unsatisfied with the service he has provided you, why stay loyal?”
At this point, I’m considering it the literary equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome 😛
Also, I would say that since he keeps saying “I’ll have it out on X date” and then consistently misses that date, he is breaking a social contract. I’m not as vitriolic about my impatience as some fans, but I really would appreciate it if instead of making and breaking dates, he just said “I’m working on it, I’ll get it out when I can” and then does so.
Jun 3rd, 2009
Split
I guess different folks deal with the problem in different ways. (Like the stages of grief). I was going nuts over the wait around two years ago. Since then I went back and re-read all my favorites and started shopping around for new stuff to read. I’ll also admit, I haven’t read the books in about five months. I’m planning on re-reading them again and will probably join all the crazies in the BICHOK group.
🙂
Jun 3rd, 2009
Lauren
I’ve been soothing myself by doing rereads, and trusting in the fact that I have the memory of a goldfish so that it always seems fairly new.
…that book is never coming out, is it? 🙁
Jun 4th, 2009
Ashley 2
As far as I’m concerned Martin hasn’t ever said “I’ll have it out on X date.” Perhaps he said this once years ago when Feast was Released, but since then it has always been “I’ll try to get it out on X date.” The only reason he’s given out dates at all is because so many people were unsatisfied with “I’m working on it, I’ll get it out when I can”.
Jun 4th, 2009
oxmix
I don’t care at all about the HBO series. I don’t even get HBO.
I don’t care about action figures or collectors items or autographs or calendars or “Wild Cards.” I don’t even know what “Wild Cards” is.
I like books.
I think I’m part of a pretty small minority.
Obviously, the money is in the television stuff. Not many people would work on books if they could make more money in televsion. Why would they?
Jun 1st, 2009
DTM
Today on Martin’s Not a Blog he made two posts. One was his requisite ancillary asoiaf merchandise BS but the other said:
“It can’t be June already. It really can’t.
Where have the months gone?
I am so depressed.”
Remember when Martin last talked about ADWD, he said that he wanted to get it done by June. I guess there goes another busted deadline. Now I’m depressed.
Jun 1st, 2009
Anonymous
Yeah, me too….
Jun 3rd, 2009
Пестилънс
Didn’t there use to be news that the rights to an ASOIAF videogame were acquired by the guys from Relic Entertainment? (Company of Heroes, Warhammer 40k) Whatever happened? I’ve never heard of Cyanide either.
I don’t know what approach they will take to translating the book to a game, but IMO the best way to do it is to preserve the ASOIAF universe, but NOT follow the books’ story. Rather, they could make the game follow an event from the past, e.g. Robert’s Rebellion, or the Dunk & Egg stories. Or maybe things that happen “off-screen”. The Witcher game had a similar approach: The events in it take place after the books, but the universe is preserved very well, so that there are constant allusions to them. By the way, in case you haven’t played The Witcher, fucking play it. The books are being translated into English as well, with three already out (2 short story collections + the first novel). If you loved ASOIAF, you’ll love The Witcher.
On the subject of what the next episode should have: SEX PLEASE. Just talk about the sex in the books. kthx
P.S. Hey, we never heard Chase’s justification for Turkey being a shithole!
Jun 1st, 2009
Chase
I’m Armenian. The Turkish Armenian genocide is a big part of my family’s history.
I also visited Turkey the second time I went to Greece, it’s a shit hole. I think I got dysentery from the spiced tea.
Jun 2nd, 2009
Пестилънс
I see.
Jun 2nd, 2009
oxmix
This helps explain the “Sam and Diane Thing” between you and Mimi.
Jun 4th, 2009
oxmix
How about, “What Ever Happend to Baby Aegon?”
Jun 2nd, 2009
Apocalypse Dan
I heard this crazy theory once that baby Aegon died by having his brains dashed against a wall by Ser Gregor Clegane. Which is really odd since I’ve always assumed there were two baby Aegons, one dead by brain bashing and the other born to Lyanna Stark-Targaryen in the Tower of Joy and raised by Eddard Stark as his bastard son Jon. Might be that the crackpot theory is right though, and the prophecy regarding baby Aegon died when his little baby brains hit the wallpaper.
Jun 2nd, 2009
oxmix
Personally, I would prefer it if Baby Aegon were dead. The main reason for thinking he might not be is a public statement by GRRM that he might not be. This could well be a “Paul is dead” sort of tactic. There are clues out there that the Walrus is Young Grif.
And of course, there is always Hot Pie.
Jun 4th, 2009
Somebody
What happened to Chris?
Jun 2nd, 2009
Chase
Somebody keeps asking this on each episode. I don’t know. The last time he was around, he said that he _might_ be coming back for some more regular episodes, but there hasn’t been any word since. I don’t think any of us really know. He just never responds to our emails.
Jun 2nd, 2009
Somebody
Alright, thanks for the info.
You guys looking to bring in any more guest hosts? I am not really interested in talking, but you seem like you could use a fact checker on the spot to make sure you get things right when you’re recording.
I have read the series twice and remember most of the facts and I am on the westeros forums daily so I am usually up to date on most of the theories and whatnot.
On a sidenote there is one major problem to the Syrio=Jaquen argument. Ned had already scheduled three prisoners from the black cells to be given to the Night’s Watch, and this was long before Robert’s death and the following events. So to make the theory fit it requires Syrio to kill the original Jaquen while in the Black Cells and switch places with him without anyone being suspicious. Which is extremely implausible.
Jun 3rd, 2009
Somebody
And also one of the reasons I ask about Chris is because he doesn’t have a picture up. I started listening to the podcast recently so I didn’t know if it’s been like that from the beginning or if he was removed from the line-up for some specific reason. And while I began listening recently I have listened to all of your podcasts, so keep up the good work!
Jun 3rd, 2009
Apocalypse Dan
I know Ned gave Yoren the pick of the dungeons, do you have a page reference where he says exactly three prisoners?
Jun 3rd, 2009
Somebody
Unfortunately I just lent my GOT book out a few days ago. I’ve read it somewhere on the forums though so I’ll look for it there.
Jun 4th, 2009
Anonymous
There’s no mention of the number of prisoners that I can find. In Arya’s chapter, when Yoren requests men for the Night’s Watch, we’re not shown Eddard’s response.
“No one sent me, m’lord, saving old Mormont. I’m here to find men for the Wall, and when Robert next holds court, I’ll bend the knee and cry our need, see if the king and his Hand have some scum in the dungeons they’d be well rid of. You might say as Benjen Stark is why we’re talking, though. His blood ran black. Made him my brother as much as yours. It’s for his sake I’m come. Rode hard, I did, near killed my horse the way I drove her, but I left the others well behind.”
—Yoren then requests privacy to speak of the matter and Arya is escorted off by Desmond. Later in Sansa’s chapter we hear hertell Jeyne of what happened.—
“I’m sure I don’t know why Arya does anything.” Sansa hated stables, smelly places full of manure and flies. Even when she went riding, she liked the boy to saddle the horse and bring it to her in the yard. “Do you want to hear about the court or not?”
“I do,” Jeyne said.
“There-was a black brother,” Sansa said, “begging men for the Wall, only he was kind of old and smelly.” She hadn’t liked that at all. She had always imagined the Night’s Watch to be men like Uncle Benjen. In the songs, they were called the black knights of the Wall. But this man had been crookbacked and hideous, and he looked as though he might have lice. If this was what the Night’s Watch was truly like, she felt sorry for her bastard half brother, Jon. “Father asked if there were any knights in the hall who would do honor to their houses by taking the black, but no one came forward, so he gave this Yoren his pick of the king’s dungeons and sent him on his way. And later these two brothers came before him, freeriders from the Dornish Marches, and pledged their swords to the service of the king. Father accepted their oaths . . .”
Jeyne yawned. “Are there any lemon cakes?”
–In Clash of Kings we see word of the men taken from the dungeons, with no special mention of Jaqen until much later–
Yoren had taken grown men from the dungeons as well, thieves and poachers and rapers and the like. The worst were the three he’d found in the black cells who must have scared even him, because he kept them fettered hand and foot in the back of a wagon, and vowed they’d stay in irons all the way to the Wall. One had no nose, only the hole in his face where it had been cut off, and the gross fat bald one with the pointed teeth and the weeping sores on his cheeks had eyes like nothing human.
Jun 4th, 2009
Somebody
Sorry, this was a mistake on my part. Turns out the quote I remembered is from AFFC when Jaime is talking to the gaoler. He makes mention of how he keeps exact figures of the numbers and how Eddard ordered 3 prisoners from the Black Cells. Unfortunately I don’t have that book with me either and my quest to get a quote from someone else is not going well.
So look for it in AFFC probably in one of Jaime’s early chapters since he’s talking to the gaoler in the aftermath of Tywin’s murder.
Jun 4th, 2009
Chase
Here it is.
“Certain of them went to the master of coin, others to the master of
whisperers. All to the chief gaoler and the King’s Justice. It has always been so in the dungeons.” Longwaters scratched his nose. “Rugen was here when need be, my lord. That must be said. The black cells are little used. Before your lordship’s little brother was sent down, we had Grand Maester Pycelle for a time, and before him Lord Stark the traitor. There were three others, common men. but Lord Stark gave them to the Night’s Watch. I did not think it good to free those three, but the papers were in proper order. I made note of that in a report as well, you may be certain of it.”
I still don’t quite know what you’re asking for here. We all know that there were 3 prisoners who were released with Yoren. Biter, Rorge and Jaqen. The fact that Jaqen wasn’t described earlier when Biter and Rorge were is suspect, but they had all been chained in that cart since leaving the dungeon so there’s no way for Jaqen to have infiltrated then.
Is it a matter of how Jaqen got into the black cells in the first place, killed one of the men and then stole their identity? All of this is quite a feat, considering how deep the black cells are, the records they keep, and the strength of the doors to each cell. Not to mention disposing of the body.
As for the gaoler, are we under the belief that it’s been Verys working down there? This lends credence to that insane Faceless Man conspiracy if so, seeing that Verys would then be working with the Faceless Men, not necessarily in aid of the others, but they’re in cahoots somehow.
Jun 4th, 2009
Somebody
The key point is that “Lord Stark gave them to the Night’s Watch” meaning that the three prisoners were turned over to Yoren before Ned was put into the cells, so that means Jaquen was Night’s Watch property before the whole Syrio business.
So unless you are willing to argue that the faceless man formerly known as Syrio killed a prisoner tied up in the back of a cart and tied himself up in his place for a chance to train a small girl in faceless man methods, then the theory is pretty much disproven.
Jun 5th, 2009
Lauren
Cyanide’s also making Blood Bowl, a Warhammer-ish game dependent on Orcs and violence. My hope is that this carries over into the ASoIaF game, where you use Ned’s head as the football!
Who’s with me?
Jun 3rd, 2009
Chase
WAAAAGH!!
Jun 4th, 2009
Anonymous
OK…where’s our next episode? Butts in seat, mics in face! 😉
Jun 5th, 2009
Anonymous
butts in seats, not seat….sorry
Jun 5th, 2009
Anthony S
So I was thinking about a Song of Ice and Fire game and what it might be like. I thought of 2 different games:
A huge MMO where you can create your own character. Female or male, facial hair or clean shaven, blond, black, red, brown, auburn or even blue hair (from across the Narrow sea), thin or fat, tall as the Mountain or short as the Imp, and weapon of choice (great sword, long sword, short sword, 2 short swords, mace, spear, warhammer, shield, dagger, bow and arrows, morning star, even armor, etc.).
Then you chose a house, to start where ever you want in Westeros and support whichever major house. So you can’t choose Stark, Lannister, Baratheon, Greyjoy, Arryn, Tully, Tyrell or Martell. You chose Mallister, Dayne, Umber, Locke, Brax, Clegane, Fossoway, Dondarion, Botley, Mormont, Rowan, etc. etc.
Then you do whatever you want in Westeros with the back story from the books going on. You can run around fighting wildlings or join a Lannister or Stark army and witness the main events, but you can’t really change them. The books have always been very realistic, so realistically one person (you) couldn’t change the major events completely. Like lets say you’re about to watch Ned die and decide to fight and help, but the gold cloaks will stop you. The story must go on, Robb must become king in the north.
The other game I had in mind was an RTS where you can chose one of the main houses and go to war and conquer any land, or just stick to diplomacy of some kind, improve and defend your kingdom. It could be during any timeliness but the time of the books. So a thousand years or a hundred years before the books. So you really could make your own events. I could be King in the North Anthony Stark the Young Ironman, if I so chose 😛
Anyways, just my thoughts on a good game. A pay per month MMO wouldn’t be cool though because I wouldn’t bother, I’m not much of a gamer, I won’t play/pay for WoW. However the only game I still play that I don’t get bored of is Starcraft, and a SoIaF RTS would be cool.
Jun 10th, 2009
Brandi
Now thats sutlbe! Great to hear from you.
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