Mar 21, 2011
Episode 42: Greyjoy Birth Control
Episode 42 for the week of March 13th, in which we discuss chapters 71 and 72 of A Game of Thrones, continue to discover Amin’s weird shipping fantasies, and rhapsodize over recent HBO trailers (just pretend they’re recent and that we’re timely). We are joined this week by a duo of comedy professionals, Brian and Jared (who are probably not lovers).
42 Comments, Comment or Ping
Tanatie
Hey, thanks for the shout-out!
This was a great episode, I laughed out loud quite a few times 🙂
Though for some reason I was expecting HmR as a guest 🙂
Mar 21st, 2011
mimi
he recorded episode 43 with us very recently, so it’ll be about a week before that one gets published. 🙂
Mar 22nd, 2011
Deborah
Chase obviously doesn’t know anything about screen adaptation. Who gives a shit about sourleaf?
Brian and Jared were fun, though.
The last Jon chapter in Game of Thrones is simply terrible. Emo boy runs off to become a fugitive and join his half-brother because, you know, ONE TEENAGER is going to change the tide of war. Bumbling ratpack of high school stereotypes bumble after him. Pep rally and goofy Night Watch oath commence in a scene that makes Saved by the Bell look like The Wire. Just, wow.
Mar 22nd, 2011
oxmix
Whew! Huricane Deborah!
Yeah, all true. But that’s fantasy, isn’t it? It’s full of, “It is I, Aragorn, son of Arathorn,” and all that. That’s why it takes your mind off your troubles.
And the Night’s Watch oath is pretty close to the Templar oath.
Mar 22nd, 2011
Deborah
Admittedly, Jon is my least favorite POV in the series (even lower on the ladder than Catelyn), so almost all of his chapters end up needling me. My problem with Jon is that in a series filled with nuanced, surprising characters he never acts like anything other than Improbable Fantasy Protagonist #237. Towards the end of Storm of Swords I got so bored with him I skipped all his chapters just so I could get to the end of the book. If it wasn’t for Sam and Mance I probably wouldn’t have bothered to go back and finish them.
The Night’s Watch oath doesn’t bother me. What bothers me is that it’s used as a rather weak plot device to appeal to Jon’s fickle morality in a way that only works in Teen Nick sitcoms. Eye-rollingly bad.
Mar 22nd, 2011
oxmix
All fair points, Deborah.
I have noticed, however, that different readers seem to have different reactions to the SOIAF characters, more so than with most other fiction. It would never have occurred to me, for example, that there would be such big fan clubs for Jaime and the Hound. (For me, once you’ve murdered a child, you’re not winning me back.) And I have a similar reaction to Dany to the way you feel about Jon.
Maybe part of the reason the books are so popular is because there is something for everyone.
Molly pointed out to me that Samwell Tarly may be variation on Samwise Gamgee. As a Sam fan, what do you think?
Mar 22nd, 2011
Kyle
I think we’re going to have to wait and see how similar Samwell and Samwise are. Sure there are plenty of similarities and differences between the two, but for me Samwise didn’t truly show who he was till Cirith Ungol. That’s when he proved himself and his love for Frodo. We shall see what test Samwell goes through.
Mar 22nd, 2011
Deborah
Heh, I liked Jaime the moment we find out in Tyrion’s first POV that he’s the only Lannister who loves his brother. He’s not a good person by any stretch, but he’s self-aware of that fact. His character is always in transition (I think he’s a better person in Feast than he was in Games), and interesting because of it….at least to me.
By variation do you mean Samwell Tarly is a butterball who proves himself equally if not more heroic than his bland best friend? Of course!
I think Sam’s more heroic than Jon because bravery doesn’t come easily to him. His watching over Gilly and Maester Aemon in Braavos after everyone abandoned them is more heroic in some ways than Jon defending the Wall againt wildlings. I don’t think he’s in a position anymore to save Jon like Samwise saves Frodo, but Jon wouldn’t be in his position of power (or emotional maturity) without having had Sam as a friend.
Except for the last one, Sam’s chapters were my favorites in Feast. I’m not sure where George is going with the maesters vs. magic subplot, but it feels late to be opening a major, world-shattering conspiracy. That and another “young man navigates his arcane education” story wears me out.
Mar 22nd, 2011
Brian
@Deborah thanks for backing me up! I think Chase (and a lot of other hardcore fans of the books) are going to be faced with a choice when this series comes out. They will all either:
A) Realize that a LOT of their favorite moments/character traits/memes will be gone in the service of streamlining a tight, effective TV story.
or B) Be miserable watching the show.
I have a feeling many of them will fall into category B, and to those people I recommend that they simply not watch it or get their hopes up. Good storytelling on film or TV is VASTLY different from storytelling in books. I just opened ASOS to a RANDOM page. Here’s a paragraph:
“It was raining when Lem returned to the brewhouse, muttering curses as water ran off his yellow cloak to puddle on the floor. Anguy and Jack-Be-Lucky sat by the door rolling dice, but no matter which game they played one-eyed Jack had no luck at all. Tom Sevenstrings replaced a string on his woodharp, and sang: “The Mother’s Tears, “When Willum’s Wife Was Wet,” “Lord Harte Rode Out On A Rainy Day,” and then “The Rains of Castamere.”
That’s 15% of one page in a 916 page story, so about 1/8000th of the story. If you wanted to portray that accurately, it would take 15 minutes of screentime and about a million dollars (casting, set construction, lighting, song-writing, cinematography, editing, directing, blah blah blah blah).
Season One (694 pages) is being done with a very generous 45 million dollars and 10 hours of programming. That’s $64,000 and 50 seconds of screentime per page. Do the math. Stuff that’s not important to the main plot SHOULD BE GONE.
Actually, we better all be HOPING this stuff is gone, because if D&D fight to keep some of this small stuff in there to appease us hardcore fanboys, they will be RUINING the show. Good television and film only happens when it’s TIGHT. Every single moment on screen must drive the story forward in some way. If it doesn’t, it sucks. Compare BSG and the Star Wars prequels, or From Paris with Love and The Wire.
Mar 22nd, 2011
oxmix
Put me in category C. I have no interest in the TV show and don’t intend to watch it.
Mar 22nd, 2011
missmollygrue
Props Mimi – I am sick TO DEATH of Papyrus.
Mar 22nd, 2011
Bart
Thanks for getting the episode up ash! And also thanks kyle for a reread that didn’t start with “huh what were we suppose to read” 🙂
Also I wanted to point out the sence where Ned is all bloody and has rope around his neck. I think that people had been saying that it’s a flashback of when Neds older brother was in the throne room as he was getting justice beaten into him by the mad king. There’s some thoughts about it here http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Gallery/Entry/2124/
Good job again and i’m gonna sound like a true GRRM fan here but where’s episode 43, it’s taking forever to come out jeez 😛
Mar 22nd, 2011
mimi
that’s what i thought too, but i was dubious since i remember the story of brandon’s death was actually recounted by jaime in book 3. makes more sense for ned to remember it, for the tv show, though.
Mar 22nd, 2011
Kyle
And if they are using Sean Bean to portray Brandon Stark as well, they need to at least film all those flashbacks now while Bean is still on the payroll. If they decide to do a flashback of his in later seasons it may prove a big problem getting him back to set.
Mar 22nd, 2011
Zeyik
sigh, June 12, I need to stop listening to you guys so I can vanquish the thoughts of amin’s shipping and “Straddle me Ned”. Oh the curse of listening to the podcast.
Chase what movie/tv show can stand up to the actual book/graphic novel? They are always gonna fall short in comparison. The show will never reach the greatness of reading the books for multiple reason so just try not to pay that much attention to everything or get drunk and watch it.
still another good episode.
Mar 22nd, 2011
oxmix
Good question! What movie/TV show is better than the book on which it was based? I’ve got two:
The Godfather
Jaws
Mar 22nd, 2011
Zeyik
never read those book so i can’t comment on them.
Mar 22nd, 2011
Brian
I haven’t read those books either, but I’ll bet you a hundred dollars that the movie versions eliminated a ton of characters and/or other major elements of the books…
Mar 22nd, 2011
Deborah
Wonder Boys was a good book, but the movie is the rare adaptations I’d recommend over its source material. Great editing (they cut out the Pass Over tangent that added 100+ pages to the book), superb acting and great dialogue.
Mar 23rd, 2011
Deborah
Add “Girl with the Pearl Earring” to that list. The book’s solid, but for a story about painting the movie works better.
“How to Train Your Dragon” trumps its book by…well, a dragon.
Ah, “Charlotte’s Web” was also a solid adaptation of a kid’s book. Same with “Rikki Tikki Tavi,” “Watership Down” and “Coraline.”
“Get over it” is the only thing I can tell fans who get upset over adaptations. I hated the Golden Compass movie, but it didn’t vaporize the books off my shelf with a God-sighted laser. In the words of the Spoony One, “Star Trek the Movie doesn’t make all your DVDs of Next Gen go blank. It’s all right. Everything is going to be OKAY.” XD
Mar 23rd, 2011
Ray
Great episode guys. You’ve come a long way from dick jokes.
Mar 22nd, 2011
Kyle
We didn’t do any dick jokes in this episode? Oh man we’re slacking.
Mar 22nd, 2011
Christina
I feel so special that my name has been invoked in many of the previous podcasts! You guys really do listen 🙂
But really, great job again and I’m getting so excited!!! (for the TV show, not in a sexual way, take your mind out of the gutter…) 😉
Mar 23rd, 2011
Fishsticks
Another great episode guys. I got to say the last 2 episode are up there with my favorites.
Great job on the rereads Kyle, very artistic and poetic.
I also agree with you Kyle that those lines of Jon flying away is indeed foreshadowing. I remember thinking that when I was listening to this chapter in the car about a month ago.
Thats right Jon riding a dragon on a Tyrion made saddle. Watch and see
Mar 23rd, 2011
Kyle
Thanks Fishsticks,
When Mormont says we could really use one of those at the Wall….I couldn’t help, but think that a dragon at the wall would most definitely be a help. The others would never dare attack with a fire breather up there.
Mar 24th, 2011
FaBio
“You can sing while stabbing someone.” “But it’s not as cheerful!”
Awesome.
Chase hating on the poster is both typical and awesome. “I hate it. I HATE it.” I LOL’d. There’s a picture of his growly ass under the dictionary entry for Disgruntled. “You win or you die” is full of cool.
And yes, John Bradley West does know he may have a sex scene. We have constant “Fat Pink Mast” jokes going back and forth on Twitter. He’s pretty damned funny, and his personal sense of humor is very close to Dolorous Edd. It would not shock me to see HBO amalgamate Samwell and Edd somehow.
Re: the Moon Door: in the HBO series it’s in the floor. It’s right there in front of the throne.
I agree that Masha Heddle could have been more horrible looking. You could show Heddle chewing the sourleaf (or some gross-looking red substance), and then showing the effect it has on her teeth. It would take 2 seconds to shoot. Yoren looks disappointing too. Chase was right; it would have have been much better to stick with the book version rather than the straight-backed “Yes milord” dude we see here.
As to Dinklage, he uses approximately three different accents for Tyrion depending on the situation. Unfortunately, the one he uses the most (the hoity-toity “public Lannister” accent) is the one he seems to have the most trouble with. But his body language is great. I love the little tap he gave with the coin on the table. Arrogant little shit.
The Jon chapter reread by Kyle was epic. With music! I…
… I teared up…
(Not really. I was giggling like a stoned turkey.)
I think partly what caused Jon to allow himself to be turned around by his oath-spouting brothers-in-arms was the fact that he couldn’t quite picture Robb welcoming him back with open arms. The whole oath-breaker thing is huge with the Starks, obviously, as was pointed out. I just don’t think Jon thought his actions through (duh) before he left, and once he was riding out the realization slowly dawned on him. Without that, I don’t think Jon would have been swayed by his black brothers, oath or no.
Regarding Catelyn / Lysa / Petyr … Lysa “tended” to Petyr’s wounds after he lost the fight to Brandon, and basically gave herself to him in the dark of night. Petyr maintains it was Cat who gave herself to him, though whether he was too wounded to remember correctly or he’s just wishfully thinking … Who knows?
But I suspect Lysa came out of this ordeal pregnant, and “Tansy” was the tea Lord Hoster kept apologizing for. He basically forced her to get an abortion.
Re: the preview: That wasn’t Ned being tied up and strangled with the bloody face; it’s Brandon (an actor Dave and Dan would not give up to us at the TCA’s, and were in fact a little mad that a “flashback” had been included in a preview).
Lastly…
We at Winter-is-coming.net (House Gatewatch) have formally declared war on House Blackwoody thru our very first Winter Is Coming PODCAST!
What’CHU gonna do?!
Nuffin’.
You got nuffin’.
We always support the bottom.
Mar 24th, 2011
oxmix
Dude, that was a shocking wealth of knowledge.
Mar 24th, 2011
Ash
We have Mimi, and if film and television has taught me anything, it’s that all asians are secretly ninja. And she comes with a butterfly knife. What have you got?
Mar 24th, 2011
oxmix
I don’t even know what a butterfly knife is. Is it a knife that’s extra girly, or is it used for cutting butterflies?
Mar 24th, 2011
mimi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balisong_(knife)
Mar 24th, 2011
oxmix
Those damned butterflies don’t stand a chance. There like Others. Nobody worries about them until – –
http://www.uberpix.net/573/butterfly-attack/
Mar 25th, 2011
Kyle
Fabio,
I’m not sure I agree with Jon realizing Rob wouldn’t take back. I feel like he still believes (at least partially) that he could have made a difference if he had joined Rob. Can’t think of any facts at the moment to back that up, but it’s the feeling I get when I read Jon chapters.
And the biggest reason he returned had to be to save his friends. He knew his friends weren’t going to head back to the Wall without him and if the sun came up and they weren’t at the Wall they would be branded deserters as well. No way would Jon live with that on his conscious.
Mar 24th, 2011
Brian
With so many pointless changes that actually have ramifications to the plot, the whole sourleaf thing is a little nitpicky. The lack of Robert and Renly’s black hair is a crime. The “Messing with Sasquatch” version of the others is a crime. Jamie sitting at the steps of the Iron Throne when Ned finds him after Kings Landing falls is a crime. The complete lack of Tyrions mirth is a crime. Kings landing set in Malta is a crime. The Dothraki are a crime. No white for the kings guard, and samari armour is a crime. And yes my spelling is a class 1 felony.
That said Arya, Ned, Littlefinger, Visererys, and Sam are right on point with their acting and looks for the roles, and I can’t wait to see them.
I don’t expect everything to be like it was in my head but why change things that don’t alter time or money to the production.
Mar 24th, 2011
OhDanyBoy
Just wanted to point out a couple things.
1) Robert and Renly’s hair – all that really matters is that it is ‘dark’ vs the light Lannister hair.
2) We’ve only had a split-second blurry view of an other. We might not even see the others in the first season – they might leave full views of them for the third season, when there is (maybe) more budget for CGI and effects. Or, maybe they look really cool already – we haven’t really seen them.
3) That scene with Jaime sitting on the steps is NOT at the Sack of KL, but in a new scene added for a convo between Ned and Jaime – the placement appears to be a callback to that referenced scene.
4) Complete lack of Tyrion’s mirth? I thought he seemed pretty funny in the character portrait videos (especially his and Jaime’s) we’ve seen. Plus he has a few funny lines in the leaked pilot script.
5) As for KL in Malta, Dothraki, you didn’t really say what you didn’t like about it, so I’ll just say, to each his own I guess.
6) The Kingsguard are wearing white cloaks, and would have been wearing white armour, but when they tried it looked terrible on screen. The initial reports of Samurai armour were drastically overdone, and the Lannister guardsmen appear to actually more closely resemble various examples shown of a certain type of medieval armour.
Oh, and I agree about all the positives you listed 😀
Mar 24th, 2011
oxmix
I think you over-indicted there, Brian. I’ll defend two counts.
Re Renly and Roberts hair, as Prof. Tolkein said, when making a novel into a film, abridging is better than condensing. I would cut out the whole “who killed Jon Aryn” murder mystery, which never took hold all that well in the novels anyway.
Re Tyrion’s mirth, he doesn’t have any. He is a bitter little man with a smoldering anger that expresses itself in sarcasm.
Mar 24th, 2011
Chase
Yeah guy, I mostly just nitpick for the sake of nitpicking.
Robert’s hair aside, I honestly don’t care about most of the changes. I’m just having a laugh.
Mar 24th, 2011
Brian
Sometimes when ya post something you don’t realize how terse it sounds when read. Didn’t mean any offense.
Mar 25th, 2011
Chase
I do that occasionally, as well. No worries.
Mar 25th, 2011
Marina
I think they won’t call the zombies ‘others’ in the series because for six years people heard the habitants of the island being called ‘the ‘others’ on LOST. I know ASOIF came a lot before than the LOST series, but I think they did this because of the people who’ll watch the series without knowing the book or even how old the story is.
Mar 25th, 2011
Brian
Brenden Tully
I never really thought he was gay but my impression of his never being married was that maybe he felt that that woman Hoster married was his one true love and that noone else could replace her. Did I miss something more telling than that?
Mar 25th, 2011
Chase
No one knows and there’s very little evidence on the subject that isn’t wild conjecture! That’s why I think it’s another one of those pointless theories that serves no purpose other than giving fans more masturbatory material. Mental masturbation, I mean. Or real masturbation, whatever gets you there.
Mar 25th, 2011
Brian
I figure if he was gay they’d just call him the “Brown Fish”
Mar 28th, 2011
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