Mar 1, 2011
Episode 39: Intermingling
Episode 39 for the week of February 20th, in which we discuss intermingling, neckbeards, Maester Luwin’s libido and everything in between, with a lengthy after show. We review chapters 66 and 67 of A Game of Thrones and try to finish off the Heir to the North theory. We are joined by two guest hosts from beyond the Wall: Apocalypse Dan and Miss Molly Grue (Sarah).
48 Comments, Comment or Ping
Tim
During the GoT reread discussion there was a lot of talk about how fortunate it was for the Stark girls that it was Arya who ended up in Flea Bottom, and not Sansa. Has anyone considered how fortunate it was that Sansa ended up captured by the Lannisters, and not Arya?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m a huge Arya fan – she’s my second favorite character. She just doesn’t have the temperament to be a prisoner. I know that she spends most of the series held captive (in Harrenhall, with the Brotherhood, or with the Hound), but never by someone who both knows who she is and as cruel as Joffrey.
I think that within a week Arya would have made an attempt on Joffrey’s life. Even if she had been successful, she would probably not survived long after the attempt.
It seems to me that each of the girls had the right skills to survive in her situation.
Mar 1st, 2011
mimi
fair point regarding her temperament, but what’s the worst that could have happened to arya as cersei’s prisoner? she needs to be kept alive as a bargaining chip. the worst fate i could imagine for her involves being kept under guard, 24/7.
i have no doubt that she’d try to take down joffrey, but the concept of a stealthy assassination is not one that is particularly honed in her at this point in the story. she constantly learns how powerless she is during the subsequent books, when her plans for bravery/escape are quashed by men with weapons. i think she’d learn the lesson a lot faster in court, especially if she made a stupid rush at someone as well-protected at joffrey. i don’t think it would be successful, and i don’t think she would be executed by court order. she’s essentially an angry little child they need to keep a firm grasp on for later use, and i don’t know that they would take her seriously enough to feel threatened by her temper.
Mar 1st, 2011
Tim
Oops, meant to reply to your post. See below.
Mar 3rd, 2011
Tim
I agree completely that she wouldn’t have been executed by court order. As you said, she is a far too valueable hostage, but so was Eddard.
It’s unclear if Joffrey would have tormented Arya the same way as Sansa, but he did hate her for what she and Nymeria did. If he had brought her up to a certain parapet to make a show of her father’s head, I’m not sure that she could have restrained herself. Even Sansa thought about killing Joffrey at that point.
But I will conceed that it’s likely she would have been stuffed in a cell somewhere 24/7. Even Cersei may have been smart enough to realize that Joffrey and Arya should be kept apart. Obviously she would never order Arya’s death, but if Joffrey ordered Boros Blount or Meryn Trant to do the deed, I’m not sure if they would have objected.
Oh, and I’m sure everyone knows by now, but just in case you don’t, head over to George’s site.
http://www.georgerrmartin.com/if-update.html
Mar 3rd, 2011
Tom
Arya was in the street for a while. Eddard was in the dungeons long enough to lose track of time. He was feverish, sure…
What did Eddard have to lose by confessing? Nothing.
Of course Sansa didn’t try to help Ned. She’s extremely self centered. Her first though is always of herself, it’s not in her nature to react first to help another. Hell, one of the reasons Ned gets executed is because of how selfish she is.
Mar 1st, 2011
Bart
I don’t know if you figured it out yet but Skull Island is just what he says when he is “wrestling with Kong” which is what is he calls adwd, and Skull Island is just where King Kong resides. (fighting the monkey on his back I guess). I don’t think is has anything to do with an in book location.
Mar 1st, 2011
Chase
Pretty much. He’s mentioned the Greyjoys a couple times so there must be a block with one of their chapters.
Mar 1st, 2011
Tom
Sorry if I give off the ragging on you vibes. I really like the podcast. I like hearing about the series and disagreements are something to talk about rather than an “I too hate Joffrey!”
Mar 1st, 2011
Amin
No problem. We do appreciate your posts and constructive criticism. I like honest feedback from people, as long as they are willing to put their name behind their views, as you are.
Mar 3rd, 2011
mimi
i had a hard time placing the context of the intro clip. i was sitting there replaying it, going, “that sounds like chris?!”
Mar 1st, 2011
Scott
Skull Island is where King Kong lives. So the reference is that he is writing the book (Kong).
Mar 2nd, 2011
oxmix
First, Molly, you rock.
On the Queen-Jeyne-is-preggers topic, if you think it makes a better story, isn’t that the end of the discussion? Arguing about whether its “true” doesn’t make much sense. None of this is true. There is no Queen Jeyne. The question is, do you think that an alive and pregnant Jeyne helps the SOIAF. It’s like the point you raised about Jon’s mom. Sure, you could write it so that his mom is Willow, but that is a less entertaining then another possibility; plus you would feel like the “promise me, Ned” stuff was a bit of a cheat.
And you raised an interesting point about whether Martin reads and is effected by commentary on what he has written so far. I don’t see how he could not be. I call this the literary Heisnenberg principle. It’s interesting because we have the unusual circumstance of what is really a single long work being published in parts over a period of decades.
Thanks for all the podcasting, podcasters.
Mar 2nd, 2011
Anonymous
Aw, shanks Ox! I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to listen to myself, but that’s not how it panned out at all. Podcasting is fun!
You make a valid point, reminding us that this is all a fiction. At least in my case, what we’re arguing about isn’t about truth but about author’s intent. Usually discussing author’s intent is just intellectual masturbation, but (because he hasn’t told us the whole story yet) arguing about Martin’s intent makes perfect sense. Is this or that detail meaningful or not? — one day we’ll find out.
Martin claims he is not influenced by what fans are talking about online or anywhere else. We know that he has people who keep one eye on that stuff, and that they tell him things that he should probably know. I am confident that the “certain things” he spoke of at that Q&A I mentioned was the R+L theory, which is so huge it would certainly cross his desk. But I wouldn’t be surprised at all if all this chatter over Jeyne’s hips (for example) just never filters down to him at all.
Mar 2nd, 2011
missmollygrue
I am lame and didn’t sign in. :p
Mar 2nd, 2011
oxmix
Also, if you look at the first chapter of the first book, I think it’s pretty clear that Eddard is set up as a Father/Justice figure, and Ice is the instrument of his power. When Ilyn Payne becomes “the King’s Justice” and cuts off Eddard’s head with Ice, I think we are being told, Woe onto Westeros, for Justice is dead.
Next will come the death of Warrior/Honor, and perversions of Mother/Mercy and Maiden/Innocence.
Mar 2nd, 2011
Eleonoway
I’m surprised that there was nothing about the whole Maester’s Path thing on the podcast or was it recorded before the 1st news about it got out?
Mar 2nd, 2011
Ash
Yeah, this episode had some technical difficulties, it was supposed to be out last week. This weeks was recorded on Sunday and does go into that.
Mar 2nd, 2011
mimi
extensively and bitterly.
Mar 2nd, 2011
Tom
Fucking Kit Harrington!
Mar 2nd, 2011
Anonymous
“Let’s send Seth Green a Maester scent box. Maybe then he’ll make a hilarious Robot Chicken parody where Jon Snow farts in an Other’s face.”
“Brilliant!”
“I know, right?”
“While we’re at it, how about Jonathan Coulton too? He can sing a song about lemon cakes and how their veracity is largely misrepresented!”
“BRILLIANT!”
Mar 2nd, 2011
Chase
We’re not bitter at all!
Mar 2nd, 2011
Zeyik
Good episode. what happened to Chase? He is hardly saying anything.
Mar 2nd, 2011
Jenn Rose
First time posting here!
Enjoyed the podcast today… Great episode! But now I feel bad. It was my itunes review that got read at the end of the episode and felt like it might have been taken wrong. It was all in jest! I love you guys. My current gig has been booooring and I love listening to this podcast at work. You’ve made many a day go by faster.
Much Love-
Jenn
Mar 3rd, 2011
Ashley
Don’t worry, we got that 😀 I almost put it as the intro.
Mar 3rd, 2011
Timmay
Is it July yet!
Mar 3rd, 2011
mimi
CANNOT EVEN WAIT.
podcasting will definitely get interesting after july 12th.
Mar 3rd, 2011
DaAlCh
I predict several episodes worth of material.
Mar 3rd, 2011
Timmay
Uh oh. Mimi dont read faster than me. I know when things are most rocking I can be a bit premature. I’ll need to not fall behind and get spoilers all over me.
Mar 3rd, 2011
mimi
you better stay off the podcast or else we’re gonna blow our loads all over you.
Mar 3rd, 2011
Bart
Yeah i’m going to be living under a rock until I have turned the last page. I’ll be taking way to many “bathroom” breaks at work that week.
Mar 3rd, 2011
mimi
i predict several hours of high-pitched fangirl squealing.
from chase, of course.
Mar 3rd, 2011
Tom
Until he realized that George ret-conned Robert’s hair color.
Mar 3rd, 2011
Chase
HAN SHOT FIRST
Mar 4th, 2011
DaAlCh
So is Episode 40 going to have a big section relating to both the release date and the new trailer? Or have you already recorded it? I’m hoping to hear all your guys thoughts on the news.
Mar 3rd, 2011
mimi
nope, episode 40 was recorded last sunday.
episode 41, however, we will be recording this coming weekend. and it will cover the recent news explosion.
sorry we’re so behind the times! i will make extra dick jokes to make it up to you.
Mar 3rd, 2011
Christina
Nice podcast! I even got a little emotional when you guys talked about Arya’s chapter… that’s some good podcasting! However, during your discussion of Targaryen vs. Lannister kids, Jaime’s aunt said that Tyrion was Tywin’s true son, not Jaime.
http://towerofthehand.com/books/104/034/index.html
Also good call about Luwin and his anti-magic stance. One wonders why he is that way – training or personal choice? Lastly, I have to respectfully disagree about the place of maesters in the families of Westeros. I never got the sense that they were supposed to be neutral; I thought the opposite in fact – that they are bound to serve their lord and his family to the best of their abilities. Every maester we’ve seen (except Pycelle, who of course is more political than personal) seems to be personally invested in their family. Besides Cressen and Luwin, I add also Little Robert Arryn’s maester who seems very invested in his health. Also it appears that Stannis’ new maester who replaces Cressen seems to stick with him, even with all the Melisandre weirdness.
Mar 4th, 2011
oxmix
As to why Luwin is anti-magic, dragons and magic seem to go together (maybe krackens too). If there really were dragons, sensible people would want them dead, I think. Unless you also had ice vampires, in which case you might prefer burning to death.
Mar 4th, 2011
Amin
Did we mention that aunt comment incorrectly, or not mention it at all?
I remembered that, but I did not takie it meaning anything about actual paternity but rather that Tyrion inherented Tywin’s political and intellectual capabilities, whereas Jamie took after his uncles. Jamie tries to convince himself otherwise later on when he threatens to catapult Edmure’s child, in a Tywin like manner.
Mar 4th, 2011
Ashley 2
OMG y’all, do I get to come back for a guest spot when the book comes out?!
Mar 5th, 2011
Chase
Please please please
Mar 5th, 2011
Ashley 2
omg pencil me in for July 13th because I will be ready to rant and rave about all the terrible things that happen.
Mar 6th, 2011
mimi
COME BACK 4EVER.
Mar 5th, 2011
Ashley 2
I wish I could!
Mar 6th, 2011
oxmix
There’s a lot of us Ashley fans. I’d even like to see an Ashley 3.
Mar 6th, 2011
FaBio
Another good episode. Molly “Sarah” Grue has fantastic knowledge of the series, and Dan’s love for the books comes right through in how he talks. I found myself smiling every time Dan talked. Great stuff! We need to lure them to participate over at Winter-is-coming.net more often.
(And they didn’t hijack the transmission with bizarre questions and inane observations like certain FaBihoffs. That dude talks too much.)
Ameen’s point that Ned did absolutely no good by confessing is excellent. And fucking true. Though if I’m putting myself in Ned’s shoes (being a father), I would probably have done whatever they said on the off chance that they WOULD spare my daughter. You just kneejerk into protective mode, I think.
Don’t get me wrong, it was still, in the end, counterproductive to the Stark cause, but … Varys was basically saying, “Confess or your daughters are fucked.” I’d have done the same, on the mad hope that Littlefinger or someone had some shred of honor and wouldn’t kill Cat’s children.
Loved the “Who’s creepier – Joffrey or Viserys?” topic. The answer is Craster.
I’m on the fence regarding Roy Dotrice. The way Dotrice reads it, Tyrion isn’t a pirate—he’s a freaking leprechaun. But I’m glad he’s not sick any more. I want to see him somewhere in the television series. What do you all think — Craster?
Completely forgot Bran still had that dragonglass!
As to the Children of the Forest … I agree with Dan that the Reeds have Children blood. No hard evidence – it just feels that way.
Sarah: “We completely overlooked the fact that Maester Luwin was savaged by Shaggydog,”
Ameen: Enh!”
Classic. But not as good as:
“Shaggydog may see Manderly as a gigantic sausage.”
Like Sarah, I too wish there were two Jeynes, but I also agree the literature thus far doesn’t give enough support for it. But damn, that would be cool. The only hope I have for that is Mimi’s “narrow hips” observation, and that maybe, perhaps, Jaime was looking at Jeyne’s younger sister rather than Jeyne.
But how the hell would the Blackfish get her out?
I too have a “fervent love of Dorn,” but sure as hell don’t wish Ashara Dayne was Jon’s—-
“Straddle me Ned?”
Mimi.
MIMI!
Anyway, loved the episode, was glad there was no violent Michelle Fairley hate (like usual), or the blatant ageism—that’s right, I said it, AGEISM—you tards routinely afflict on us old people.
You have my permission to edit the fuck out of my bizarre ramblings for next week’s podcast. Everything but my Chase impression.
I too vote for another Dan and Miss Molly show.
Mar 6th, 2011
Amin
Thanks for the comments and coming on the show.
You should join our forums, we’ve got some ‘interesting’ discussions going on there.
Mar 6th, 2011
FaBio
P.S…
Glad the after-party was on the podcast. Because how else would we have been gifted with “Big-Headed Golden Box?”
That one’s going to have mileage.
Mar 6th, 2011
JAZ
That episode was great. I agree with Fabio on the guest host love! They rocked and had some great insight and passion for the books. Too bad I haven’t been reading along faithfully, like I should’ve. I listened to Fabio’s podcast and regret not being able to guest host on that one with him. 🙁
Mar 8th, 2011
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