Apr 17, 2008
Episode 4: Tard Bastards
Episode 4 for the week of April 13th. Sorry for the publishing delay! For this episode, we took a trip up north to the Wall and the Night’s Watch, cross-examining the mental capacity of the Others and learning more about Chris’ Jon Snow fanaticism. The crew for this episode is minus Amin but plus the new hosts!
P.S. – Oops! I call it the 5th episode in the outro message. Don’t pay any attention to that. I know nothing.
34 Comments, Comment or Ping
ulteriormotive3
Ashley 2! Don’t be afraid to speak up!
Sam! You’re awesome!
The rest of you! I love your show!
Exclamation marks!
Apr 18th, 2008
Chris?
who’s Sam?
we got another one?
I knew it!
You guys are trying to replace me!
If I’m going down I am taking you all with me!!
I agree that Ashley 2 should speak up more. and sing too.
Apr 18th, 2008
Ulteriormotive3
God I’m dumb.
Er… Ben! You’re Awesome!
Don’t hate me!
Apr 18th, 2008
Ashley 2
I promise to speak up more next time. Not next time, but next time, next time . . . I don’t make sense do I?
Apr 18th, 2008
Slurpee_E
With all the new voices, I thought I’d be confused as to who said what, but I was wrong.
The only topic you guys didn’t spend enough time on were Mance and the wildlings, but no biggie.
Apr 19th, 2008
lapse
Good episode guys.
With respect to Coldhands being a wight – I think he was probably controlled by the Others in the past, but got ‘reclaimed’ by the three eyed crow, and given back his free will.
And you guys need to come back to the Bloodraven theory at some point, or maybe do an episode on some of the more reasonable conspiracy theories.
Bloodraven is an awesome character. In my opinion, the best evidence of his presence somewhere up north is the flock of ravens that follows Coldhands around and then swoop down from the weirwood tree to save Sam and Gilly from the wights.
Bloodraven was half Blackwood and half Targ. The blackwood coat of arms is a weirwood tree with a bunch of ravens perched in it.
That and his motto was “A thousand eyes and one”, indicating that maybe he’s a warg with a huge number of “pets”. (Or maybe, more reasonably, it just refers to his position as spymaster in KL)
Overall I like the theory that Coldhands is Benjen and the Three Eyed Crow is Bloodraven. Only problem is, Bloodraven would need to be over 100 years old for the theory to work. But hey, as Aemon said, the cold temperatures preserve the body in GRRM’s world. Anyway, hopefully we see more of him in future Dunk and Egg stories.
Apr 19th, 2008
lapse
Also Jon might have some more freedom to move around if somebody blows the Horn and the wall comes tumbling down. Don’t most of the oaths deal with defending the wall?
If there’s no wall to defend, he might then reasonably interpret the oaths to mean that he should do whatever he needs to do to beat the Others – whether that be going to petition Dany for her help, or anything else.
Apr 19th, 2008
Josh
Wow great podcast. Found you guys via Tower of the Hand and I’m impressed. Definitely keep up the weekly ‘casts so that I can look forward to them!
Apr 20th, 2008
Aaron
Azor Ahai is clearly Hodor. Or Hot Pie.
Apr 20th, 2008
Chris
ridiculous!
Azor Ahai is clearly Delorous Edd.
Apr 21st, 2008
Ash
well Sandor’s doing pretty well in the poll! excellent, my influence is spreading! *evil laugh*
Apr 21st, 2008
Jakob Lightbringer
I agree that Ashley-Two is great and needs to talk more. By the way, you were right the first time, Ashley-Two, Brynden Rivers.
I noticed that you guys are often flustered by the facts during the podcast. You need a geek logged into “a Wiki of Ice and Fire” or “Tower of the Hand” to do on-the-spot fact checking (I thought Amin was secretly doing this in earlier episodes — and then figured Ashley2 was doing it up until the “Brynden River–um–Waters” part).
Also, there’s a pretty convincing reason that Bloodraven can’t be Coldhands (and probably not the three eyed crow either): Bloodraven has only one eye — thanks to Bittersteel. So unless zombie eyes are magic…
Apr 21st, 2008
Ashley 2
Hi Jakob!
I knew it was one of the two. Blah. Forgive me.
While I suscribe to the Bloodraven is the three eyed crow theory, you bring up a good point. I don’t know if the three eyed crow actually has to have three eyes. I think it’s really just the third eye that’s important. *shrug*
I’m curious as to whether you have a thought on who the three eyed crow is, or if you think it’s just one of those mythical being sort of things?
Apr 21st, 2008
Aaron
Jakob – Usually we’re just going by the seat of our pants, or at least with very little to go by. I’m editing the fifth episode right now, and you’ll hear a lot of skype beeps in the background as we look up more stuff and share links. It can be hard to keep up with the pace of the conversation, so there really isn’t anyone researching as we talk.
Apr 21st, 2008
Raven
I found the link on the Tower of the Hand and have enjoyed the discussion thus far.
Keep up the good work and interesting pronunciations!
Raven
LOM
UK
Apr 21st, 2008
Jakob Lightbringer
Well, I suppose Bloodraven *could* be the Three Eye’d crow — I guess three eyes isn’t necessarily a prerequisite for the position — but, man, that great bastard would be really freaking old.
Maybe his lover (and half sister) Shiera Seastar showed him how her mother used dark magic to preserve her beauty in her old age.
Well, I can tell all of you are well on your way to becoming aSoIaF experts in your own rights. Every new episode affords me fewer and fewer opportunities to grimace in displeasure when somebody gets something “all wrong!” and more and more opportunities to laugh.
I was going to suggest that you guys do a show about all the taboo sex in the series, but after listening to episode 3 (both of them), that topic probably needs a chance to cool down, take a cold shower, and perhaps get spayed and neutered, before it sees the light of day again.
Apr 22nd, 2008
a podcast of ice and fire
jakob – you bring up a really great point. at certain times, i am furiously clicking on the citadel and tower of the hand to make up for our collective confusion. most of the time, however, i get derailed by leading conversation. your comment is making me seriously consider assigning an official “get the facts straight” role to a member for good.
– mimi
Apr 22nd, 2008
Amin
Thanks for the comments everyone. Thanks Jakob for implying I have a good grasp of the series details and minutiae, sometimes I think I know too much about certain aspects =P
Apr 22nd, 2008
Michael Natale
Another good episode.
In your discussion of Jon’s fate at the wall, there are a couple factors in play:
-First, Melisandre believes the Prince that was Promised and Azor A-Hole are one in the same person:
“Make no mistake, good sers and valiant brothers, the war we’ve come to fight is no petty squabble over lands and honors. Outs is a war for life itself, and should we fail the world dies with us.”
…All of them seemed surprised to hear Maester Aemon murmur, “It is the war for the dawn you speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised?”
“He stands before you,” Melisandre declared, “though you do not have the eyes to see it. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai come again, the warrior of fire.”
–Storm of Swords
-Aemon thinks she’s wrong. In AFFC right before he dies, Aemon says she has misread the signs and that Dany is the PTWP:
“No one ever looked for a girl. It was a prince that was promised… Rhaegar, I thought… The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female… Daenerys is the one, born amidst salt and smoke… Lady Melisandre has misread the signs…”
-A Feast for Crows
I don’t think anyone other than Mel ever states that the Prince and Azor are the same dude (or dudette).
So we know that Martin has said Jon’s lineage will be revealed in ADWD (he’s said it in several interviews, actually).
If we accept that Jon is the product of Rhaegar and Lynna, then does he have King’s Blood? What happens if Mel finds this out while they are at the wall? Will she try and roast him instead of Mance?
If its revealed that he is indeed Azor Ahai then will Mel abandon Stannis and start following Jon around? Assuming Stannis has bought into the Azor Ahai prophecy, if there’s conclusive evidence that its not him, will Stannis assume Jon’s role as Lord Commander so Jon is free to pursue his destiny?
Just some thoughts…
Apr 23rd, 2008
Matt
Hey guys, sorry to be responding so late, I got caught up an AFfC reread and missed a couple of episodes. I enjoyed the podcast again.
Just wanted to point out, Maestor Aemon didn’t pass on being king because he didn’t want the burden of ruling. He was already a Maestor chained, and maestor’s are sworn to serve, that’s why he wouldn’t accept the crown. He didn’t go to the wall until Egg was king (in an attempt to solidify Egg’s rule if I remember correctly), and Bloodraven went at the same time.
Apr 25th, 2008
Frank
Excellent podcast (for a beginning podcast). I have been reading the books since they first came out.
A couple things about this episode-
I think if you listen to the older interviews that Martin gave at conventions, it is clear that the song of ice and fire is the story of the Stark family. I know that Ed and Robb and Cat are all gone, yet the opening chapter of a game of thrones sets this story up to be one of a young wolf pack going their separate ways. I think that this series will conclude with the POV children coming together and bringing vengeance to all those who destroyed their lands. I think this is the meaning of “winter is coming” as well it is further symbolized in Sansa’s rebuilding of Winterfell at the end of ASOS.
I do think that Jon is set up to be Azhr Ahai reborn, he is not just destined to “peak” at being granted the position of Lord Commander.
Martin has said this over and over throughout the years, that this is the Stark’s mess he has to clean up, which leads me to believe that in the end it won’t be lannister or targaryen that rules the realm, but Stark which rises out of the coming winter.
Apr 27th, 2008
sevenwarlocks
I would like to see a podcast covering R+L=J.
Apr 30th, 2008
KyleM
Haha I was laughing like crazy when the comparision to the Borg was made and one of the ladies (I couldnt tell which one, but I think mimi) let out a very quick and very soft “Oh god.” Hahaha. Too funny.
Also I just wanted to throw it out there that the Old Bear was not at the wall because of his son. Well not for the reason that was stated here anyway. The Old Bear was at the wall at the time of Jorah’s first wife’s death. Jorah hadnt even met Lynesse (aka The Golddigger) yet. So that means the Old Bear wasnt sent to the wall because of his son’s shame or atleast not the same event that sent Jorah into exile.
Makes me wonder why he was on the wall?
May 8th, 2008
Amin
Kylem, I agree, he wasn’t on the wall for Jorah. I always thought he was one of the few, like the blacksmith, who decided to enlist voluntarily.
May 12th, 2008
KyleM
Amin, The men of the North certainly appreciate the wall alot more than the Southerns, but unlike the blacksmith (I dont recall much about him so I may be wrong here) and unlike Benjen start who was the third son of a lord, The Old Bear was Lord of Bear Island. Seems rather unlordly that one day he would just announce to his people he was going to leave for the wall. He had a son who at that point seemed quite capable to ruling, but still stepping down doesnt seem like something a lord should do without a very very good reason.
May 12th, 2008
KyleM
sorry guys I need to proof read my comments before I post them.
May 12th, 2008
Amin
How old was he when he went to the wall? I think he spent a great deal of his life ruling as a lord, and deserved “early retirement” while still serving the North, with his son ready to rule and other strong female family members. I mean it’s not like he’s a Stark of Winterfell, he’s the lord of a small island that was once won in a wrestling match.
May 26th, 2008
Amin
Also the fact that the island used to be raided by Ironmen and wildlings, he could help defend it (indirectly) from the later, at least symbolically.
May 26th, 2008
DocBean
holly hell.
is Ben the same Ben that did the Dragonmount podcast for Robert Jordan’s books? sounds the same.
Sep 30th, 2008
DocBean
why is there no edit feature?
I didn’t mean to type Holly Hell.
sounds like a name of a crappy character from a really bad Holloween/Christmas horror movie.
Sep 30th, 2008
DocBean
I agree with Chris.
I don’t think Jon will step down from being the Lord Commander.
I think the Wall is coming down.
Also, not that many people think Jon will be a dragon rider.
More people think Bran will Warg a Dragon or be a rider.
One of the dragons was found at Dany’s Legs – Bran – can’t use his
One was at her Head – Tyrion – smartest man in the Realm
One was at her heart – Dany is number 3.
I also agree with Chris about Dany comming to Westeros – She will show up in time to fight the Others, not take the throne. Which is another reason why I hate the Others and their part in this series.
Sep 30th, 2008
ipod
Yo.. late response to your lovely podcasts, and maybe you guys cover this later, but just thought I’d make a comment on the whole Stark/Wall business.
It’s mentioned quite clearly in the books that there’s a huge respect for the Stark line (them being so old and blood of First men and all that) in the North, and that certain obligations seem to go with that. Basically it seems like the North believes that 1) there should always be a Stark at Winterfell (and the world is right again!) and 2) it’s a rather common tradition for a Stark of some lineage or another to also serve on the Wall, which is why I’m guessing Benjen went off specifically there (and Jon later too) and not to, say, the Summer Islands to while his days away. A Stark giving a son (trueborn even) to the Wall is a powerful testament to how seriously they take their duties and how they view the Wall in general, and I think it sheds a good light on why the rest of the North is so cool with accepting the Starks as the main family, ruling house or Kings of the North or whatnot.
Not to mention, it also sounded like half the LCs of the Wall were Starks of one kind or another (also note that Sam mentions to Jon in AFfC that the youngest LC ever at age 10 was a Stark (Osric), as were the other 4 younger-than-Jon LCs). Which might, come to think of it, be why the older people were more okay than I thought realistically possible with picking Jon as the next LC. It must’ve felt acceptable in part by his lineage (a lot of North in Jon, bastard or no).
Basically, my long-winded 2 cents was just to say that a Stark on the Wall is a well-established tradition and associated more with duty/honor/tradition rather than shame/disgrace/dirty business. That whole stigma about the Wall containing -only- riffraff and criminals is voiced mostly by people from the south anyway, probably because those are the only sort of people they deign to send there. People from the North seem to take the Wall much more… ah, respectfully. Well, minus the Boltons, but they’re just vile at this point.
p.s. I freely admit this whole post was to clear Benjen’s reputation. He’s a STARK. He’s the man! Especially since it must’ve killed him not to do anything when Brandon and his father got burned by Aerys. Ahhh, Benjen love.
Nov 8th, 2008
Danielle
I’m a new listener to the podcast, so I’m catching up on everything you guys have done so far. Anywho, I just got to the part where you’re talking about Jon and how he is part Targaryen (sorry, I’m at work and forget how to spell the name off the top of my head) but was raised by Starks. If the speculation that Jon is in fact Ned’s nephew, than he is more than just part Targaryen, he is also part Stark, not just raised by Starks. Truly, within himself, a Song of Ice and Fire.
Nov 24th, 2008
Danielle
I don’t think Jon is going to die, in battle or otherwise, in this series. I think this whole series is more about Jon than we realize. As one of you mentioned at one point toward the end, we read many more POVs from Jon than we do from Robb. I don’t think GRRM is building Jon up just to cast him down.
Nov 24th, 2008
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