Jun 20, 2011
Episode 59: Baelor
Episode 59 for the week of June 12th, in which we review the ninth episode of HBO’s Game of Thrones. This week’s episode is SPOILER-FREE, in light of our returning guest host: Larry from Otaku Assemble, now even more internet-famous for his YouTube reaction to the final scene of the episode. We review “Baelor,” interrogate Larry about his feelings, and argue the amount of male eye candy versus female eye candy in Game of Thrones.
87 Comments, Comment or Ping
SheepHappens
I’m glad you finished editing the episode and all, but where is the actual audio?
“Spoiler-free” takes a whole new meaning to it. LoL :))
Jun 20th, 2011
Anonymous
Click on “download” then click on “Baelor”
Jun 20th, 2011
Exodus
– I’m pretty sure in the books it mentions that the twins were two castles on either side of the river that were connected by a bridge. The castles weren’t anything amazing but they were still big enough to be called castles and there were mirror images of each other which is why they were called the twins.
– Shae definitely came off as a bit more of a bitch in the show. In the books she’s a lot more willing to do anything to make Tyrion happy. On the show seems a lot more combative.
– “Only sexy ladies listen to the podcast of ice and fire”… I guess I need to pick up a nice dress.
– The reason that Mirri had to deliver the baby wasn’t that none of the other women couldn’t. It was that none of them would. Dany really freaked out almost all of the dothraki by allowing the blood magic to happen. Nobody wanted to be near here really other then Jorah.
– agreed. Just having the wolves presence would be really nice.
– Thank you guys SO much for making sure Larry knew that the sword was ICE. I don’t think many people who didn’t read the books noticed that. Hell other then this episode, I don’t think you see ICE anywhere other then the first episode and they never really brought up how important that sword is to the family and how insulting it was for Sir Ilyn to behead Ned with his own sword.
– The hound isn’t the most popular character. π Though admittedly I am personally disappointed as well at how much they are down playing his character :-(.
Thanks for the episode guys. Awesome as always. Thank you Larry for bringing your fresh view of the story. You guys rock. Can’t wait to hear the episode for the season finale. (Don’t let it be 3 weeks late please.)
Jun 20th, 2011
Ash
just want to clarify, i said 5th most popular character. when Tower of the Hand did their popularity vote, i believe it went Tyrion/Arya/Jon/Jamie/Sandor/Dany. And considering he’s the only one their without a pov…
…fuck you HBO, now I’m mad again.
Jun 21st, 2011
Exodus
Just realized that my first comment that i wrote while listening to this episode was really long…. my bad. I apparently just like to through in my two cents lol. π
Jun 20th, 2011
Kyle
Nothing at all wrong with long comments.
Jun 21st, 2011
Jeremy
Props for the Holy Grail reference. I was there with you during that scene. π
Jun 20th, 2011
Joohnson
Really worried listening to this, spoiler-wise:-) Half way through now. Good shit!
Jun 20th, 2011
mimi
hey, thanks! i was pretty leery while recording and editing this, hoping that something didn’t slip my attention and present itself as a spoiler. glad you’re enjoying it!
Jun 21st, 2011
Jeremy
Wait – did something actually just get bleeped? π
Jun 20th, 2011
mimi
YES. larry earned the first ever APOIAF censor bleep.
Jun 20th, 2011
Tom
Bundle of sticks?
Jun 20th, 2011
Mordion
Or British cigarettes.
Jun 20th, 2011
Tom
I’m going to assume we’re wrong so I don’t have to boycott Larry.
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
the world will never know.
Jun 21st, 2011
FTWard
Bean knows Larry (sort of)
http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2011/06/sean_bean_on_whats_next_for_ga.html
Jun 20th, 2011
Exodus
Thats freaking awesome.
Jun 20th, 2011
Tom
Am I reading too much into “they’re the last last people you’d expect to be so pissed off?”
Jun 20th, 2011
Asa
Probably but it holds true. You don’t really see many a-ams that are into fantasy, or at least vocal about it that if they are, it wouldn’t seem like a rare once in the blue moon kind of thing..
Jun 20th, 2011
zeyik
great episode..what was so shocking that a bleep was required? Was it glistening manhood?
I laughed really hard for the hentai and tentacle porn reference…
Jun 20th, 2011
zeyik
okay and if your worried about there not being enough hot women…..in season 2 we get asha, melisandra, ygritte and Qartheen women…just thought I would throw that out there.
Jun 20th, 2011
mimi
RIGHT ON.
Jun 21st, 2011
JAZ
Asha! Yes, they fucking well better get that casting right, too.
Jun 21st, 2011
Kyle
Asha = meh
Melisandra = mmm Jessica Rabbit
Ygritte = meh
Qartheen women = I’ve seen enough naked ladies to know that an exposed breast does not a hot woman make. Besides we’ve already seen enough breasts. I want to see beautiful women. That’s my type of eye candy.
Jun 21st, 2011
zeyik
your missing the point! It doesn’t matter what you think they will look like its a matter of who HBO casts. There are plenty of roles to be cast where you might see a hot lady.
I brought up Qarth because yall said you wanted to see different breasts
instead of just Ros.
Jun 21st, 2011
JAZ
Kyle, you are do wrong about Asha!
Jun 22nd, 2011
lane
hey you guys. I just want to add something to the “sex scene HBO” thing.
Everyone always talks about how Martin it up there with tolkein and all that, but its more real. Well, in this sort of a time period, you have whores and all of that. And guess that, robert takes a pee…people have sex…people do die. Thats what attracts so many people. I dont get all the sex bashing anyways. Its a part of life, as is eating, drinking, peeing, and Shitting (one scene in particular) thats what makes the show and the books great. π Long live martin. lol
Jun 20th, 2011
mimi
dude i find tv shae to be way more shrill.
DON’T TALK ABOUT MY MOTHER OR FATHER OT I WILL CARVE YOUR EYES FROM YOUR HEAD.
OH NOW I’M FUNNY. I’M SHAE THE FUNNY WHORE.
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
whoops, replied to wrong person. GO TEAM MIMI.
Jun 21st, 2011
Katie
I don’t get the hate for show Shae. The books aren’t paramount. Shae was a shallow, shrill character in the series, but here they’ve given her a wit and a mystery. Considering she has to last TWO SEASONS it seems a wise choice. She has to be developed enough to banter for Tyrion Dinklage for that long.
Kyle is like a stock sound-effect button. Every sentence for the last five episodes is punctuated by an “oh yeah” or a “mmmmm baby.”
Jun 20th, 2011
Asa
I seriously think its just people having hang ups about any changes made from the book and hating it even if it actually turns out better or more appropriate on the screen.
Jun 20th, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
Kind of agree with this.
Being mad about taking a character that was a complete cliche in the book and turning her into something more interesting and layered with a a talented actress….makes me kinda scratch my head at times.
The tv series has done SOME things better than the books have, period. I include Shae as one of them.
To say she’s fine in the tv series, but compared to the books, she’s horrible is completely off base, in my opinion. The preference is for an air head, which is how I remember the Shae of the books, really?
Thinks the showrunner’s have done one of the best adaptions for tv, from a book, in the history of tv or film, when I look back on this first season….one of the best first seasons (mostly because of the back half) of a series, ever. Up there with Deadwood, The Sopranos, The Shield, and LOST.
Jun 20th, 2011
Asa
Not to forget that George probably has SOME (even if very little) input in how some characters should be portrayed or introduced. For all we know, George talks with D&D about nixing things he now dislikes about certain characters or events from the book.
Jun 20th, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
Well, I wouldn’t go that far….at least in regards to anyone other than Sansa. π
Jun 20th, 2011
Sisaat
Personally, I think the “mysterious woman with a mysterious past” is a lot more clichΓ© than Shae was in the book. Especially since I don’t beleive HBO has any idea what said mysterious past is. If it turns out they’re actually going somewhere with it (for exemple she is a previously unknown Sand Snake) I would’nt mind as much. But I doubt it.
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
HBO doesn’t?
D&D doesn’t?
Their doing for shits and giggles?
If you don’t trust the people putting out the show to know what they are doing, why bother with it?
This boring and tired nerd rage idea that the people who are putting this show together are too stupid, too ignorant, and/or too cheap/greedy when it comes to the books and story than the viewers/readers is the ultimate cliche of the first season.
There are things to take issue with:
Talk about the Hound, Kingsguard, Direwolves, ‘sexposition’….but Shae….man..please.
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
different viewers/readers take issue with different things. i, for one, don’t have a problem with lack of direwolves. but everyone has their own perception of what’s important and what isn’t.
sisaat didn’t suggest that HBO is ignorant or stupid- the point is that GRRM’s plots with all it’s glorious twists and turns are a mystery. we don’t know if he’s shared a lot of his future directions with d&d. it could be related to later text, or it could be creative license on HBO’s part. Either way, we’re not required to love this particular alteration. sorry, i HATE this shae. apparently my priorities are all wrong?
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
There is a difference between not liking something because it doesn’t suit your tastes, which is fine, you can’t argue about taste AND saying the creators are acting in bad faith.
I replied and took issue with the notion that sisaat believed that HBO has no idea what it is doing with Shae, therefore I believe sisaat believes HBO to be ignorant and/or stupid. What other word would be more appropriate?
If you have issues, say so and defend them/support them with some piss and vinegar. Which many people have and which I respect, i.e. Ashley with the Hound and Linda/Westeros with the Kingsguard and Cersei.
But maligning people as not knowing what they are doing, because you don’t like it….
Thinks that is unfair and will call it that.
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
honestly i think that’s a huge leap of logic. questioning HBO’s creation of a non-canon personality/backstory for a canon character is hardly maligning the entire integrity of the company and its production.
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
I think that claiming they are doing that without knowing such
a fundamental storytelling notion as ‘what’ and ‘why’ is accusing them of acting in bad faith.
Is that a huge leap of logic?
Or is the leap of logic thinking that the people working to put out Game of Thrones, DON”T know why they would make the change that you rightly point out?
It’s not about liking or disliking, that’s taste and fine, agree to disagree.
It’s not about questioning a non-canon personality/backstory, it’s about saying there ISN”T one. Based on what? Provide links.
For me, that is accusing D&D of bad faith.
We all know where Shae’s road is going to lead, I’m glad to see her take another route to getting there.
We don’t have to check everything off the list.
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
“provide links?” dude i don’t even know what you’re talking about and why you’re so affronted at this point.
sisaat just pointed out that there might not even be a tv show mysterious past. for one thing, there wasn’t one in the books. i don’t know how that opinion gets extrapolated to a “bad faith” accusation.
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
The ‘opinion’ is that HBO doesn’t know (and I would insert care) about Shae’s past, because they are going to use it as a red herring to make her more interesting than she ‘actually’ is. And the ‘opinion’ is that they will likely not reveal her past, because: They haven’t thought of one? Really?
That’s an accusation of bad faith.
It’s not bad faith to dislike Shae or HBO’s decisions in regards to other things we all take issue with.
It’s bad faith to claim they are doing it to play games with fans.
Shae = Mary Sue?
I think D&D are better than that.
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
personally i’d welcome red herrings. it’s not a cheap tactic to keep people guessing as to who will become key players and who cannot be taken at face values. i think that a show of this complexity that gets so thoroughly analyzed by its viewers would actually benefit from set-ups and red herrings.
i am not going to continue to split hairs over what constitute a personal opinion about a characterization direction and what constitutes a mortal wound to the integrity of HBO. i just hope that future commentors on our blog can express their concerns without being accused of ‘boring nerd rage.’
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
Welcome red herrings and set-ups? There is always GLEE….
Or second season of Heroes…..
Secondly, Iβll just refrain from posting in the podcast episode threads from now on, because I have no doubt that I am in the right and knows that you have no doubt that you are in the right.
Your house, your rules.
plus:
there are no emoticons and I can’t read half of what I am writing right now.
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
look man, it isn’t about being “in the right” or my rules (whatever they may be; as far as i know the only rule i live by is “more dick jokes”).
it’s more about fostering a community of fans who don’t get immediately dumped on for expressing an opinion.
Jun 21st, 2011
Sisaat
I might as well precise my Mary Sue comment. I wasn’t saying that tv Shae is one but that she reminded me of one. I am sure that D&D are better than the bored 12 years old girls generally responsible for Mary Sues. I was just trying to say that maybe my instant dislike for Shae was just me being very biased against “mysterious women with mysterious a past” It really wasn’t intended as a comparison, sorry if I did not express myself clearly enough.
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
It’s cool, Sisaat.
I tend to come on strong, if I find something to sink my hook into to.
Can’t help but reply to posts, and reply and reply and reply.
Welcome to the threads, forum, podcast, etc.
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
I provide links when I make points, if asked too:
For example: Last few posts in thread:
http://podcastoficeandfire.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=189&p=3086&hilit=neverwhere#p3086
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
that’s relevant if we’re writing a GOT thesis or trying to topple each other with facts, i’m sure. still don’t see how requesting someone to provide links to support a PERSONAL OPINION makes any sense.
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
Opinions have some foundation in some sort of reality, right?
I’m interested in why the poster thought that Shae was a cheap trick by the producers.
I disagree with the idea of Shae being a cheap trick and I disagree with the idea that the producer’s of the show are interested in doing that sort of thing.
Does that make me a troll?
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
i’m not accusing you of trolling. i’m just not sure why you took so much umbrage with the original comment.
Jun 21st, 2011
Linecom1
this is why i don’t bother with poe…… π
Apr 4th, 2013
Sisaat
I’m not saying they don’t know what they’re doing. Shae’s past is only important if they’re actually going to reveal it. What i’m saying is that they may very well only be hinting at it to make the character appear more interresting than she really is. I guess my problem with Shae is that she reminds me of a Mary Sue
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
But in your original post, that is exactly what you said.
I don’t think that HBO/D&D/Martin use ciphers and red herrings as cheap tricks to pull over their audiences.
They aren’t AMC/The Killing.
Jun 21st, 2011
Sisaat
In my original post I said they don’t know what Shae’s past is. That doesn’t mean they don’t know what they’re doing, because they may just be planning to leave it to the viewers imagination. If that is what they are doing, then they don’t NEED to know. Yes it’s a cheep trick, but I’ve seen it a thousand time
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
How do you know that? Please provide link to where you found that bit of information from?
Or is it just a deduction from being well-versed in genre cliche?
Jun 21st, 2011
Sisaat
I don’t KNOW that. I never claimed I did. This was just an opinion and apparently I should have kept it to myself
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
A deduction then.
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
no, i’m glad you shared your opinion since i clearly have a similar one.
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
As do I, even though I clearly don’t share it.
π
Jun 21st, 2011
Christina
My problem with Shae is that the whole point of her character was that she reminded Tyrion of Tysha, the crofter’s daughter who’s a prostitute who’s really a crofter’s daughter in that (fakely) earnest, uneducated (shut up Kyle!), and certainly NOT foreign way. Her downfall in the books is her open desire for money and to be treated like a high class lady. The TV Shae is totally unlike Tysha, plus (through my perusal of newbie forums), most people are under the impression that she’s some high born woman who somehow fell on hard times, or even Jorah Mormont’s ex-wife (!).
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
All of those alternatives would be far more interesting then country bumpkin with big eyes for $$$ that she was in the book.
Jun 21st, 2011
FTWard
Why does Shae have to be interesting?
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
Because she’s taking up screen time that could be spent on someone who is interesting, IF she wasn’t. BUT now she is. Therefore, Happy Fanboy.
Only ten episodes….
Jun 21st, 2011
FTWard
In my opinion Shae’s uninteresting commonness and gold digging whoreishness are illustrative of Tyrion’s pathetic need to be loved and makes him more interesting.
I think they thought the actress was great so they cast her and made the character fit the actress instead of the other way around.
If they are looking for interesting screen time, I suggest they get rid of Ros and come up with less lazy ways of having characters impart back story.
Jun 21st, 2011
FTWard
I also suggest they go to 12 hours at least instead of 10.
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
We don’t know the whole story behind the use of Ros, yet. I’m
with Myles McNutt in regards to Ros, ‘wait and see.’
I don’t have anything against fitting a character to an actress, when the result is something more layered and interesting.
The more confidence the showrunners have to make digressions and explore areas not in the novels, great! I want that!
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
There is the fundamental difference between you and I then, I think.
Takes the characters as full fledged characters and not ciphers for the plot, even the minor ones.
In the end, all roads lead to Rome.
Why complain about taking the more scenic route.
Jun 21st, 2011
Mordion
Man, I usually don’t even click on the episode comments, and I almost missed a whole Poe fight because of it. You guys need to fight in the regular forums. π
For the record, I do not like tv-Shae.
Jun 22nd, 2011
Exodus
Larry had a good point… why the hell are the books so difficult to find in hardcover?
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
Anyone heard of Amazon….?
Jun 21st, 2011
pjstwo
what is that…some sort of river?
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
No No….it’s an adjective/proper noun for a super hot brick house
chick….think Wonder Woman.
Hmpf! And to think I thought you were GEEK-fabulous.
π
Jun 21st, 2011
Kyle
While on the subject, everyone should see the latest animated Wonder Woman movie, voiced by Keri Russell, I think. And also has Nathan Fillion in it and lots of other awesome people. It is gooood stuff.
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
Is it like the Batman: Animated Series…with that great stylized look? LOVES those.
Jun 21st, 2011
Kyle
No the animation style (if I’m remembering correctly) was more in the vain of the later Batman episodes or the entire Superman cartoon. I forgot what the animation was like because the story was so good. I’m not a big Wonder Woman fan. I’m very glad that I didn’t let that stop me from watching this movie.
Jun 21st, 2011
pjstwo
bad news for everyone is Amazons cut off one boob. Which would make Wonder Woman wayyyy more intimidating, but less hot.
Jun 21st, 2011
JAZ
Just wanted to add to the Maester Aemon Targaryen-ness discussion. I’m not sure, but I think it’s mentioned that giving up your last name and family affiliation is part of becoming a Maester. None of the maesters have a family name, so maybe that’s why he was considered “safe” in addition to being old as methuselah.
Jun 21st, 2011
JAZ
OMG, Mimi! I do not have a crush on everyone! I only love Poe! π
Jun 21st, 2011
Poe to the Pulps
:O
Jun 21st, 2011
mimi
but we got the part about you being smokin’ hot right!
Jun 21st, 2011
JAZ
Oh, I dunno about all that. I think the red heads and green haired ladies are much more striking.
Jun 22nd, 2011
mike
The complaints about Shae seem confusing. I have not read the books, but you described her as “deep as a kiddie pool.” So that means she’s either fairly shallow or dumb or an airhead of some sort.
That would not translate well on screen at all, and the actress opposite Dinklage (maybe the best actor on the show) would seem completely out of place and be shit out of luck. Just as a TV watcher, I would not believe Tyrion would fall for an idiot, even if the actress acted her ass off. Producers made the right choice to change her for the show.
Jun 23rd, 2011
Kyle
Hey Mike,
Thank you for listening to the podcast. Great to have you here.
I think the complaints come from HBO and the actors doing such a wonderful job of being so similar to the characters in the book that all of a sudden we are presented with a character that is so different. It’s a bit jarring and head scratch inducing.
For better or worse they have given us a much different Shae then us readers are familiar with. She may certainly grow into a much more engaging and interesting character in the series, but for right now….I miss my simple Shae.
Thanks again for joining us.
Jun 23rd, 2011
JackieDeex
I like the way they are potraying Shae in the show. I think her being an older and more intelligent charachter makes what she does in Storm of Swords that much more… it gives it more weight I think.
Jun 28th, 2011
Gamerooms
Good to hear the news.
Aug 18th, 2011
Chris
I’d always assumed Ned was whispering the names of his kids: “Robb, Bran, Arya, Sansa… oh yeah and Rickon!”
Dec 14th, 2011
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