Jul 29, 2011
Episode 62: A Dance with Dragons
Episode 62 for the week of July 24th, in which we discuss George R.R. Martin’s recently released A Dance with Dragons. We talk about our general reactions and, after a slow start, dive into some of the new theories. We are joined by guest host Apocalypse Dan, leading to a lengthy aftershow.
Note: This episode is full of spoilers, so read the book before you listen to it! This will be the first of several episodes dedicated to A Dance with Dragons.
In other news: Our podcast has been interviewed by Marc N. Kleinhenz. The interview is up at Tower of the Hand. He had previously interviewed John and Alex from Tower of the Hand.
43 Comments, Comment or Ping
zeyik
Thank You. Glad it was a short hiatus.
Jul 29th, 2011
Kevin
I agree with Nancy/Ashley’s comments about the Essos chapters. Barristan, Dany, and her khalasaar were the only characters in her court I could really care about (except Grey Worm, who’s cool; and Daario, who’s awful). I’d still rate the book higher than they did, but they had a point there.
Jul 29th, 2011
Josh
I think Dany fanboys are gonna hate the book because Dany had the most tedious and frustrating chapters in the book, her and Quentyn. Everyone else had really good chapters, I especially enjoyed Theon and Tyrion’s chapters they both started out broken men and slowly throughout the book had to regain their sense of self and will to live.
Jul 29th, 2011
Daniel W
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I got seriously annoyed by Dany.
Aug 30th, 2011
Sebastian
Your opening says “for the week of May 24” just fyi 🙂
Jul 29th, 2011
A Podcast of Ice and Fire
Good point, uploading the corrected file now, it may be unavailable for a few minutes
Jul 29th, 2011
Tom
The one Jon chapter that gave no new information was the one when he sends Sam off? Like 90% of that was word for word the same chapter from Feast. I think he CTRL+C, CTRL+V’d it.
3ish lemon cakes.
Jul 29th, 2011
Pig-boy
The only Jon chapter for which you can make the ‘total filler’ argument is the one where he takes the new recruits out to the forest to say their vows in front of a weirwood, and he encounters the group of wildlings and the giant. I can’t think of how the story or the characters therein are any different at the end of that one than at the beginning.
Aug 5th, 2011
Anonymous
The guy who claimed Martin said AA and the PTWP are the same has retracted it on Westeros
Jul 29th, 2011
markhaus
I had to completely disagree with the statement made early in the podcast along the lines of “Everyone in meereen wanted her (Dany) gone”. This is not true at all. Read the chapter where she refuses XXD. 13 ships couldn’t even have taken all her Unsullied, let alone all her freedmen.
Jul 29th, 2011
Tom
Oh, then it was only 99% of the people that wanted her gone…
Jul 29th, 2011
markhaus
Yeah, only the 80,000 freedmen from yunkai and astapor, the 10k unsullied, most of the ex-slaves in Meereen, some of the slavers themselves.
So yeah, a bit more than 1%.
Jul 30th, 2011
Tom
The point is that it was clearly hyperbole, which is apparently going over your head.
Jul 30th, 2011
markhaus
The point is, probably a good half of the city would be slaughtered if she left, so its not just hyperbole saying everyone wants her gone, its just flat out wrong and a misreading of the entire Meereen storyline.
Jul 30th, 2011
Rosanna
A series of podcasts based on ADWD? 😀 Awesome!
ADWD went around in circles and didn’t get anywhere, this actually applies to the chapters where the setting was Essos. I just wished Dany would just ditch Mereen already. I’m sick of the Ghiscari. x_x
Jon’s chapters were the best in the book. I was so shocked that Martin would even entertain the idea of killing Jon but once I mulled it over, I realized he most likely isn’t dead. 😀 Wishful thinking, perhaps?
Jul 30th, 2011
Christina
Great podcast guys! Can’t wait to get more in depth chapter readings. I agree with everyone here that the book was a little stilted and I was frustrated with everything in the East – both Tyrion and Dany’s chapters. The only characters who really progressed were Theon and Bran – and even then we only have 3 Bran chapters. First time ever that I looked forward to Bran chapters! I’m still totally confused about the last Jon chapter and why he decided to attack Bolton, and why the Wildings were so enthusiastic about it – is it because they still support Mance? Was it made clear to them that Mance was really still alive? And Jon deciding to attack is totally against the Night’s Watch core beliefs… so I kinda have to agree with the guys stabbing him. Of course, I was pro-Brutus in the Julius Caesar scenario as well 🙂
Anyhoo, it was great to hear you guys again!
Jul 30th, 2011
Dary
This is hard to listen to, I liked it so much.
Jul 31st, 2011
ranjitb
Just finished the new episode, great job as always guys.
I just want to get in my 2c about the question Amin posed in the end, i.e. do I want the series completed or do I want it to be good.
I have a serious, serious problem when the question is framed in these terms because one – it implies that the two are mutually exclusive, that is you can either have one book a decade or you can have crap but that shouldn’t have to be true at all. And two – the reason why I don’t agree with this defense of GRRMs tardiness is that you are assuming that time spent on a project is directly proportional to its end quality, which is just not true. I mean in this case he could have easily spent another ten years writing chapters of Tyrion asking Penny where Whores went but they wouldn’t have been any good.
Jul 31st, 2011
danosmokesalot
whores go to bravos. tysha=the sailor’s wife
Aug 1st, 2011
oxmix
Ashley’s review of the novel was spot on.
I wanted to be good too, but, as Syrio might say, let’s see what is there instead of what we thought would be there. The other volumes are outstanding. This one is not.
There is no fast vs. good dichotomy at work here. It took forever and it is mediocre. This makes me fear our beloved author may have passed his peak.
Aug 1st, 2011
Inkasrain
Great listen, guys, but two things:
– I don’t think it’s biologically possible for one set of twins (even fraternal twins) to have two different fathers. Even if mom and both dads were all in bed together or something… I kind of doubt it.
– As a person with no older siblings and no douchey object-of-my-affection stealing friends, I stand up in firm defense of Brandon and Ashara’s liaison. (Or, as I like to refer to it, the “Ned Was A Virgin” theory.) It is known.
Aug 2nd, 2011
A Podcast of Ice and Fire
It is biologically possible, but very rare. This was the case I was thinking about when referring to that possibility:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/30864533/ns/today-parenting/t/mother-gives-birth-twins-different-dads/
-Amin
Aug 2nd, 2011
Inkasrain
Wow. I stand corrected by the crazy shit that is biology.
But I gotta maintain that this scenario is probably not number one on the list of “Most Likely Theories of How Westeros Was Blessed With Cersei and Jaime Lannister” 😉
Aug 3rd, 2011
Vonbek
Eddard was a great fighter! But he told bran if it wasn’t for Howland Reed Arthur Dayne would of killed him! Who really knows! GREAT pod cast guys amazing even!
Aug 2nd, 2011
Jon
Wouldn’t it almost be better if Jon stayed dead? For one, it reminds the reader that just about ANYONE can die, along with bringing a whole new story arc into the Night’s Watch affair. It brings to fruition all those fears the builders and stewards had, since most likely the wildlings will now turn on them (since Jon was the only thing holding them together, really), and potentially (read: probably) muck up any chance the North had not to be invaded by things that go boo in the Night.
As for why Jon was killed, I think it was probably because he turned into the Night King, going against watch beliefs (of a sort, bringing in the wildlings), making hasty decisions (Hardhome), making his own kingdom (not listening to his advisors), and most importantly, turning the armies of the Night’s Watch south. The Watch takes no part, after all.
Aug 3rd, 2011
ranjitb
Except the fiction that “anyone” can die seems to apply only to the Stark clan. While Tywin and now Kevan Lannister have also (who knows for how long) bit the dust, they were never central characters in driving the story (Tywin was, to some extent in shaping his children, and with his larger than life reputation, but we never saw anything through his eyes).
I get that the story is meant to be bittersweet, but so far in my opinion its been all bitter and no sweet. And since I do not have a hard-on for a Targaryen restoration like many, the inevitable Danerys-Tyrion victory (YES Mimi, I do believe that its inevitable) is something I can live with, but I would at least like SOME joy for the family we first came to Westeros with.
Aug 3rd, 2011
Fishsticks
Another great podcast guys! Dan Dan the Apocalypse man was on fiyah.
However, I disagree with Apoc. Dan about Roy Dotrice. True, His Dany voice was aggravating. I dont mind him using that voice for secondary characters like Ygritte, but on a main character? Why Roy? Why? And yes his voice did sound a bit more weathered. But not as bad as all that. With the exception of a couple voices it was the same old Dotrice Ive come to appreciate as my favorite Audiobook voice.
I thought Ashley was spot on. For me, the further away you get from Kings Landing and the North the less I care. I really dont give a shit about Essos and the politics over there, at all. I enjoyed the Westeros stuff and Arya and to a lesser degree, Barristan. Tyrion started strong and then started going down hill after being taken by the slavers
While its still Martin and he is the best, aDwD really did feel like a lot of filler to me. when I finished the book I couldnt help but gripe to myself that I would have to wait at least 3 years for the next book.
I dont want to overstate my displeasure. I did like aDwD. Its leagues ahead of other fantasy books, imo. Just disappointing.
Aug 4th, 2011
ranjitb
A friend of mine saw my copy and was like “Oh Ive been meaning to buy that, how is it ?”
And instead of just hating on it, I considered and told him, “You know, in 2008 it would have been great. In 2011, not so much.”
A lot of people talk about all the “set-up” and “put pieces in play” that this book supposedly does, well thats what the LAST book did, and I GET that is is AFFC II, I really do – which is why it would have been fine 3-4 years ago, but after such a long wait its a huge let down that we are left waiting AGAIN on a million cliffhangers with little to no resolution.
Aug 4th, 2011
oxmix
Remember all that talk about the Meerenese Knot? We thought it was about how to untie the knot. Apparently it was about how to make it more tangled.
It there is some point to the tale of Tyrion’s travels, it is lost on me.
Aug 4th, 2011
oic
i thought there was too much
“Word is Wind”
“You know nothing”
And Dany annoyed the hell out of me. She act like some spoiled teenager in love and turned dumb
Aug 9th, 2011
soitgoes
I just finished the book sunday and listed to your podcast yesterday. I so agree with Ashley and her assesment on the book!
Aug 9th, 2011
swak
the slight which cause tywin to resign as aerys hand was jaime being appointed to the kingsguard, making tyrion the heir to casterly rock, which of course greatly pissed tywin off.
also the wasn’t so much filler in this book as expansion of the world, its a sprawling immersive fantasy, complaining about history and other extraneous info in the book doesn’t really make sense, because thats just the style of writing martin has, he’s always done that, its part of what makes the world seem so tangible. really it seemed to me that after the length of wait for this book the expectations for it were going to be impossible to meet, and people are reaching for things to criticize to justify why they feel let down.
Aug 12th, 2011
The White Bullshit
Kudos on the video Ashley!
Really cool putting up the video even if the other podcasters chickened out. Badass.
On the book I tend to agree with most of your criticism. Should have advanced the plot further in the east. Shorter and/or fewer chapters would have been preferable here.
On the whole Jon marching on winterfell I disagree a little bit. Jon have been breaking quite a lot of Nights Watch traditions lately. The letter contained a direct threat directed at the Lord Commander. Millitarily he is in a stronger position than before. Lastly, sometimes people are unpredictable, and they make unpredictable decissions. (Like Jaime going back for Briennie in the bear pit). Ultimately it didn’t feel “off” to me. I was surprised by it but thats about as far as it goes.
On the other hand I guess Jon could have been assasinated without the whole going to winterfell thing.
Aug 13th, 2011
Fearsome Biscuit
I can’t wait till you guys talk about Brienne… and the fate that awaits Jaime. :>
Also, Mimi, enjoy the 蒙古包s. ;P
Aug 15th, 2011
SomeGuyOutOfNowhere
I sure hope Jon is not dead cause he was always the character that I related to the most.
Also, Ashley looks really cute on the picture to the right…
Aug 21st, 2011
evil_ash
Ashley is implausibly hot. Even when feeling sick.
Aug 21st, 2011
Kyle
Amen. Any reason to keep that girl in bed.
Aug 30th, 2011
branthebuilder
ashley – good for you posting your videos even though no one else did or even recorded!
Aug 24th, 2011
Daniel W
Davos off to find Rickon! I want to read the pov for that!
Aug 30th, 2011
Tom 162
Dany could really have done with a good master of whisperers in Meereen. She had plenty of military power and good intentions, but was blundering around in the dark. Her marriage was only a superficial solution for her lack of knowledge. If she’s going to do any good in Westeros, she should either forget about ruling (maybe leaving it to Aegon) and just take her dragons up to the Wall to beat back the Others, or get better informed. Varys and Lord Manderly and Doran Martell all seem pretty clued-up, and might deal fairly with her.
Are you still looking for a motto for The Twins, where they have lots of family members to marry off? How about “Would you like Freys with that?”?
And speaking of the Freys, here’s my burning question from ADWD:
How do you pronounce Ser Aenys?
Sep 1st, 2011
mimi
clearly, anus.
Sep 1st, 2011
Tom 162
Aaaaand I’ve just seen in another thread that someone else was onto “Freys with that” way before me, and re pies instead of marriages. Oh, well.
Sep 1st, 2011
Jed
I love George’s names for people-
Urine Crowseye
Anus Frey
Anyone Manwoody
Sep 4th, 2011
Reply to “Episode 62: A Dance with Dragons”