1. Mr.Wolf

   I believe it was bran in one of the books that recalls a story of three targaryen siblings traveling to the wall on their dragons which supports the three seperate dragon theory… Ya’ll seem to be over analyzing that point. In regards to A Dance of Dragons, Martin said the events of that book takes place before, after, and during a feast for crows. Characters such as Arya point of views (who starred in AFFC) will focus on after the events of their journeys in AFFC. The remaing POV characters who weren’t featured will AFFC will be right before and during the timeline of AFFC then a bit of what happened afterwards. For next episode a good topic would be “What if Ned was allowed to take the Black.”

   Now, for my last comment which is the most important of all. Where is the BLACK presence or insight on this podcast. WHERE ARE MY REPARATIONS!!! We’re about to have a black president so it should become rule of law… no blacks on panel you get shut down. :3

   Jun 8th, 2008

2. Mr.Wolf

   Legend of the last hero btw is a story that Old Nan told Bran in AGOT, right before tyrion arrive back from the wall.

   Jun 8th, 2008

3. wormlips

   when the podcast started to cover the issue of jon and daenerys, it brought to mind the fact that they were two polar opposites with one defending the seven kingdoms and the other bent on conquest. I know its pretty obvious, but just a thought.

   Jun 8th, 2008

4. rik

   yeooo, at last!

   Jun 8th, 2008

5. Lauri Hassi

   Huzzah, another one! That was awesome. Thank you.

   Ok, how about this “theory” then (in a very small nut shell form):

   Jon will not leave his place as the Lord Commander of the NW (he’s already done it once just to come back). However, the others will come south and overwhelm the wall, due to which Jon and those left alive of the NW (Stannis will die i hope, although he’s a honest guy I still don’t like the asshole) will have to desert the wall, but NOT the black.

   Dany will come to Westeros (with her dragons and her force). She is pretty fucking awesome and (thus) people will tremble. Dany and Jon
   connect and consort and combine forces (in all sorts of ways 😉 hell yeah).

   They will battle the others and the wights and gain victory. However, Jon will return to the wall and Dany will reign (new throne, the current one blows). They’ve really gotten into each other during this time, so such an ending is pretty damn bitter & sweet as GRR hinted at it being, especially when the usual pov slaughters of GRR’s style are thrown into the mix. Also J and D might find out they are siblings (half) and be weirded out, or then not.

   Maybe not though? Sorry to write such a massive post.

   Love these casts btw!

   Jun 8th, 2008

6. Aaron

   lauri hassi said…
   Dany and Jon
   connect and consort and combine forces

   I still want a Megazord.

   Jun 8th, 2008

7. Aaron

   I don’t know if we’ve ever explicitly stated it, but some of you might be confused by the whole “It feels like tuesday”. Almost every time we’ve tried to record on a Tuesday, we monumentally screw up in some way, and usually it takes many many takes before we get on track.

   Jun 8th, 2008

8. Lauri Hassi

   Don’t you always “monumentally screw up” regardless of the week day? No! I kid, I kid! Really good work.

   No, no Megazord I don’t think. More like romance, killing and reign. Thought maybe Dany and Jon feel to “meant to be” for it to happen.

   BTW, what is that song in the beginning of the casts?

   Thanks.

   Jun 8th, 2008

9. Harlan Stone

   A thing about Coldhands, couldn’t he be the Night’s King, bound to guard the Wall for all eternity?

   Jun 8th, 2008

10. Turncloak

    I beg to differ…that seems to tall taleish.

    Allso I am offended by what you girls said about the topic about getting high with people.

    What’s wrong with getting high and mellowed down with Stannis? I demand apology! Lol, jkjk.

    I never knew the key to conwuest was through love with Dany…wow.

    That Maester, Victarian and Quenton travel to the Mother of Three…who will get their first? Which of the two will wed her?

    Dany and Asha…nice

    The only thing that will work out if Dany rules is equal primoganiture like Dorne

    “Oh what I tasted of desire, I go with thouse who favor fire. But if it were to perish twice, ice would suffice”
    Twoo reigns, one of ice and fire die…

    Jun 8th, 2008

11. Tiffany

    About the prophecy with the mummer’s dragon. Didn’t that really take place in AFFC? I thought it was mentioned in a Cersei chapter or two. The rumor of Dani’s existence and of building her army had finally reached the small folk. With the commoners starving in Kings Landing and the Barathon/Lannister rule becoming less popular every day, some mummers but on a little fantasy satire where a dragon destroys a stag (and or maybe a lion?) When Cersei gets wind of it she freaks out and punishes the mummers troop with treason. In a following chapter it is noted by another character that the actions she took against the mummers were somewhat overzealous. I can’t remember which chapters it’s in exactly, but I just reread AFFC a few months back so I’m pretty sure I’m remembering it correctly.

    Jun 8th, 2008

12. Anjou

    wow, i leave for a week and THIS is what i return to! not too bad! thanks guys and keep on truckin’

    Jun 9th, 2008

13. ash

    wow, i just listened to it. damn do we ramble.

    Jun 10th, 2008

14. lina

    Ashley 1, I was bummed that you didn’t get a chance to explain why you think Sandy is Azor Ahai. I actually wanted to know. Tell us!

    Jun 10th, 2008

15. Anjou

    The moon seed segment was ho-larious

    Jun 10th, 2008

16. Mr.Wolf

    I would like to be a guest on the next podcast.

    Jun 11th, 2008

17. Avernaith

    My personal theory is that Azor Ahai Reborn and The Prince Who Was Promised are different people. I think it’s a fair shot that Sandor is AAR because: R’hllor spared Sandor when fighting Dondarrion, Sandor could be said to be ‘born of smoke’ from his horrible baptism by fire at Gregor’s hands, he can also be said to be born of salt since he “died” and was reborn at Salt Pans. Finally, what would be cooler than the guy deathly afraid of fire having to wield a burning blade and be a hero?

    I see Jon as the PWWP, and the scene from the Halls of the Undying I believe depicted Rhaegar and -Lyanna-, not his wife Elia. Weird to name two sons Aegon, sure, but why would Dany fail to recognize Elia when she clearly knew who Rhaegar was?

    I wish you guys had had the time to talk about Arya and Needle. Though it was not a prophecy per se, it continues to give me shivers every time I read the passage and speaks much of foreshadowing.

    BTW only Jojen and the children of the forest have green dreams, Bran has tree dreams and wolf dreams and has reached out to his scattered siblings in some of them (most notably Jon).

    Great episode guys, can’t wait for the next.

    Jun 13th, 2008

18. Ashley 2

    Hi, Avernaith!

    Martin has confirmed that Azor Ahai Reborn and the Prince that was Promised are the same person. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/2006/07/
    So, for me that’s the end of the two different people debate.

    Also, Martin has also confirmed that the woman in the room with Rhaegar is Elia. I wish I could find the link for that as well but I have failed. 🙁

    Thanks for the clarification on Bran. I honestly couldn’t remember for the life of me. Clearly, this means I need to do a reread.

    Jun 14th, 2008

19. Avernaith

    Well thanks A², I definitely need to do some deeper thinking now myself. I’m a big Sandor fan and really wanted to see him as AAR, but it doesn’t look likely now. I think we’re definitely left with Jon or Dany at this point.

    Jun 14th, 2008

20. Mimi

    mr. wolf – it’s up to the discretion of the rest of the crew, based on the topic they’re planning to record. but as a general rule of thumb, to be a guest host for any of our episodes, you’ll absolutely have to have:

    (1) skype
    (2) a good mic
    (3) a sense of humor

    send an email to iceandfirepodcast@gmail.com with your name, contact info, and availability during weeknights. we’ll get back in touch with you once the next recording plans are organized. 🙂

    – mimi

    Jun 14th, 2008

21. mimi

    also, i enjoy how i keep signing off with my name even though i’m logged into my own gmail account.

    ps – i just caught up with grrm’s livejournal and read back to the entry where he says he’s finished an arya and a sansa chapter.

    it gave me cause to wonder if both stark girls are featured as they are in the book, because grrm has remarked, “there is no sansa, there’s only alayne stone” or some equally cheeky on the barnes & noble questions forum. furthermore, there’s a definite emphasis on arya discarding her identity (cat of the canals was her last one, i believe).

    he’s probably speaking about them literally, but i just thought it’d be awesome if we had an arya stark POV that would be from the fake arya.

    Jun 14th, 2008

22. Avernaith

    I’d definitely like to find out what happened to the survivors of Winterfell, even Theon Turncloak. Might be that following the misadventures of Fake Arya (aka Jeyne Poole) would be the way of doing that.

    Jun 14th, 2008

23. Anjou

    The destruction of Winterfell was sorely needed, I think. That place was really ugly. That’s why I always have liked Theon.

    Jun 14th, 2008

24. Aaron

    Some of our very observant listeners might remember that I’m located in Iowa. Welp. Between F5 tornados, boyscouts getting killed by OTHER tornados, and floods which the state has never seen, ever, the worst I’ve been through in the last two weeks has been some dime sized hail during a thunderstorm about… two weeks ago.

    I’m about 15 minutes from downtown Des Moines, in Altoona, which is a whole other town that is kinda getting swallowed up and turned into a DM suburb whether we like it or not. DM, and Cedar Rapids (which are nowhere near each other if you don’t know your Iowa geography (I don’t blame you)) are getting flooded like no tomorrow, but there is absolutely nothing going on near me.

    Jun 14th, 2008

25. mimi

    dear aaron, i hope you’re okay and that your family members are not affected by the flooding. stay safe, YOUR GIRLFRIEND would be very upset if anything happened to you.

    second point of curiosity: i was re-reading my favorite parts of ASOS, and was wondering: when tywin had that standoff with joffrey and remarked later that the boy required a sharp lesson- does that lend credence to the idea that tywin was involved in joffrey’s murder? cause as far as i remember, there was no other sharp lesson, and a lannister always pays his debts.

    Jun 15th, 2008

26. Slurpee_E

    I really have no solid proof, other than a gut feeling about Tywin’s mentality. I don’t see Tywin planning Joff’s murder simply because I think he knew that he was really in charge of the kingdom anyway. Joffrey ruled only because of the wealth and power of the Lannisters. Psychological torture was more his style. There would be no need to kill Joff if Tywin knew he could control him in some way.

    Jun 15th, 2008

27. mimi

    you’re right- tywin does everything for a reason. but i considered the possibility of joffrey lashing out at his hand, no longer able to be controlled by his mother, as a sign that he was starting to become a problem at a young age and that tywin noticed it. not to mention that joffrey’s displays of cruelty and stupidity weakened his image as a capable king in the eyes of his court- and in turn, the lannister image. i think it was something in particular- tywin pacing around after the confrontation, and tyrion stating that it was unusual of him to do so, indicating tywin was very upset- that got me thinking.

    secondly, i believe that tywin really planned on sending tyrion to the wall. he seemed to want the entire trial to go as smoothly as possible and seemed uninterested in who was responsible for the death of his grandson. i don’t think that tywin lannister is gullible enough to believe tyrion had done it, considering that it would have been a very clumsy and obvious murder if tyrion had been responsible for it.

    Jun 16th, 2008

28. Mo

    Ya,
    I really trust to Tyrion’s descriptions of things, and he is usually plays the “the wise”. There was no reason that a smart guy like Tyrion would have been that stupid.

    I also agree that Tywin probably did it. That was actually my first thought, because no one else seems to fit. (Well, okay, Littlefinger through a 3rd part maybe.)

    Avernaith- What is the foreshadowing your talking about?

    My theory is that Martin’s novels are just a big ‘ol metaphor for Jesus and the Bible…and FrankenGregor is the resurrected Jesus! Cause Gregor only hits because he loves!

    Jun 16th, 2008

29. Slurpee_E

    I’ll have to re-read that chapter to see if maybe there was something subtle I missed, but I still think Tywin’s first plan of action would be to separate Joff from Cersei so he could rein him in and maybe smack him around some, not killing him. Maybe six months down the line, when he sees it would be much easier to run the kingdom with Tommen on the throne …

    Then again, maybe he saw a little of crazy-ass Aerys in Joff and thought it would be better to prevent another mad king ASAP.

    Jun 16th, 2008

30. Anjou

    Why is everyone still going on about who killed Joffrey? We already know the assailant from their very own lips, Tyrion 😉

    Jun 16th, 2008

31. Avernaith

    I’d tend to agree that Tywin had a sharp lesson planned, but not regicide. We know from Tyrion’s experience that Tywin’s lessons are unforgettable, but killing Joffrey would not only put him beyond Tywin’s control forever but weaken the Lannister hold on the throne by a life. Tommen is/was a young boy with no guarantees to live to adulthood, if Joff were killed then only one life would remain to keep the Lannister claim to the throne.

    I can’t see Tywin indebtting himself to the Tyrell’s by having them slip Joff poison at his command, and if had ordered it done himself I’m sure it would have been handled in a quieter, more controlled fashion. Still, a very interesting theory!

    Jun 16th, 2008

32. Mo

    I don’t know, It seems to me that often we put to much emphases on the not so obvious answers. I mean, the Queen of Thorns/Maergary/Moon Boy/”Littlefinger” makes alot more sense. In fact, I believe that only Littlefinger and The Queen of Thorns could have had the gumption to do it.

    Jun 17th, 2008

33. oxmix

    Dear Podcasters:

    I’ve been listening for a while, and just caught up to the latest episode.

    It’s a good podcast, and episode 9 was especially good. Talking about a bunch of separate prohecies together helps put the story in context.

    Here’s an interesting plot point that may have escaped your attention. Maggy the Frog, a seer with a good record for reliability, is Jeyne Westerling’s great-grandmother. The geneology is explained by Tywin to Tyrion.

    Also, this means that Maggy the Frog is the grandmother of Sybell Westerling, which implies that Sybell Westerling is a sibyl Westerling.

    Pretty cool, no?

    Jun 17th, 2008

34. Ash

    oh yeah, i mentioned the westerling/maggy connection in one of the earlier episodes for why i believe jaynes mother is really pulling one over of the lanisters… but i’m afraid it doesn’t have much support on the boards 🙁

    Jun 17th, 2008

35. Avernaith

    One of our crack podcasters mentioned Jeyne Westerling’s hips being narrow when Jaime saw them off, and early they had been described as adequate for child bearing by Catelyn. I recall Cat judguing Jeyne’s hips acceptable but haven’t taken the time to validate Jaime’s impression of them being narrow from the text in AFFC. If Sybell is playing a game with the Lannisters it’s a fairly convincing one. The Westerlings had Grey Wind fooled after all, and we have been led to believe the dire wolves’ senses are quite reliable. Either way, what an interesting side story. What if Jeyne is pregnant? Does this mean that she is still Queen of the North and could possibly be the younger prettier queen to topple Cersei? Ironic, considering she is from Maggy the Frog’s own bloodline.

    Jun 17th, 2008

36. mimi

    avernaith- i reread both POVs concerning the first impression of jeyne just yesterday and it struck me as very odd.

    catelyn mentions jeyne’s ample hips are good for childbirth at least twice in her chapter. in fact, her hips are subject of the closing sentence in that chapter.

    jaime describes her as “narrow hips, breasts the size of apples, a mop of chestnut curls, and the soft brown eyes of a doe.”

    honestly, jaime’s description of jeyne sounds like cat’s description of roslin frey when they first beheld her at the red wedding. cat described roslin as having curly brown hair, narrow hips, small breasts, a tiny waist. and then agonized about roslin’s hips not being suitable for childbirth.

    after that reread, i’m definitely with you on that theory, ash.

    Jun 18th, 2008

37. Avernaith

    That brings up some real possibilities, especially since stand-ins are already a recognized feature of the landscape (Jeyne Poole acting as Arya Stark in the Bolton marriage, Myrcella’s Lannister cousin standing in for her when she ran off with Ser Arys Oakheart). I definitely think Sybelle would have cause to stick one in Tywin’s eye if she knew about Cersei killing Maggy the Frog, but the dialog really seemed to portray Sybelle as a scheming Lannister vassal. The mind boggles.

    Great catch on the hips, whatever GRRM intended this is not the kind of detail he’d make a mistake on, so we have to assume something is up. Maybe the Blackfish did make away with Queen Jeyne. Hope they head for Greywater Watch.

    Jun 18th, 2008

38. oxmix

    And the moral of the story is:

    Keep spouting those outlandish ideas Ash!

    Jun 18th, 2008

39. Enderlost

    Point of Order: Melisandre has had every single one of her visions come true, just not as she expected them.

    Jul 9th, 2008

40. a podcast of ice and fire

    not that anyone is listening to this anymore, but WHY ON EARTH DO I SOUND LIKE I HAVE A LISP?

    – mimi

    Jul 11th, 2008

41. DocBean

    I think when Rheagar looks at Dany and says there must be one more, it is actually a trick GRRM is playing on the reader. I think you are lead to believe that that 1 more is actually Dany. I read it as, ah, Dany is the one he’s talking about, after reading them and rereading them, now I think it’s obvious that Dany is one, but Rheagar was actually talking about having another child – Jon.

    Oct 3rd, 2008

42. DocBean

    Could Dany’s betrayal for Gold have to do with the Golden Company and what they’re up to? or maybe Tyrion will betray her for Casterly Rock.

    Oct 3rd, 2008

43. Danielle

    I think she named the dragons in remembrance of those who were dead, I don’t think they foreshadow anything.

    Nov 25th, 2008

Reply to “Episode 9: Moon Seed”