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Episode 102: Dark Wings, Dark Words

Episode 102 for the week of April 7th, in which we review the second episode in the third season of HBO’s Game of Thrones.

Notes: Like almost all episodes of APOIAF, this episode has spoilers for all published books in George RR Martin’s ASOIAF series.

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33 Comments, Comment or Ping

  1. Kyle

    Just to cover my ass I’ll leave this right here.

    Straight from GRRM’s mouth.

    “GRRM: A warg is bound to a wolf. Skinchanger is a more general term. All wargs are skinchangers, but not all skinchangers are wargs.”

    http://boiledleather.com/post/28908673771/all-wargs-are-skinchangers-but-not-all-skinchangers

    Reply

    AngryGoTFan

    MAKE THEM UNDERSTAAAND!!! WARG MEANS WOLF!!! WARG MEANS WOLF!!!

    Reply

    ash

    But all skin changers have the potential to be wargs since they’re an easy animal to control. So again, the distinction is pointless.

    Reply

    LeeorV

    This!!!!!

    Reply

    Kyle

    I don’t agree. Orell has chosen to only bond himself to an eagle. Therefore he cannot be called a Warg. He is only a skinchanger.

    Every geek has the potential to be a cosplayer. But if you choose not to cosplay you cannot be called such. You, Ashley, are a geek and a cosplayer while I am only a geek.

    Reply

    ash

    well then every animal bond should have it’s own name!

    Reply

    Kyle

    I can’t disagree with that. They probably already do. I’ll have to brush up on all my ancient mythologies.

    Reply

    Redwoody

    I think the fact that the characters in the story that matter most are wargs is the reason we know about them in particular. In the books Orell was dead before we knew the first thing about him, and beyond that we only really have Varamyr and stories and suppositions. The word warg, though, is from old Norse mythology, so you could make something up for eagles. Arne, apparently is the old Norse word for eagle. :P Doesn’t have the same ring to it.

    Reply

    Redwoody

    In any case, of course the adaptation is going to try and simplify things. Wargs, skinchangers, greenseers. That’s a lot of information download for the space of one episode, if you take the time to describe each separately. I can handle Orell being called ‘warg’. I do hope they do eventually make the distinction that Orell is a warg, Jojen is a greenseer, and Bran is BOTH, because some non reader friends are expecting Jojen to have an animal soon. ><

    Reply

    ArstanNeckbeard

    The prologue of ADWD makes the distinction, and describes ‘wargs’ specifically as “wolf brothers”.

    Reply

    Jack

    I think “bound” is the key word here. A warg is someone who is “bound” to a wolf. Like they seem to understand each other instinctively and their emotions seem to be tied with one another.

    A skinchanger is someone who can simply take over another body. A warg is someone who has a deeper connection with their wolf.

    Reply

    S

    So Bran and Arya are not Wargs then with that definition

    Reply

    Jon

    Bran, Arya, Jon, and Varymyrr were all Wargs and skinchangers.
    Orell and that boar controlling dude were skinchangers and to our knowledge not Wargs.

    Reply

    Andre

    Charg – skinchanger linked with a chicken.
    Dark – skinchanger associated with a duck.

    :)

    Reply

    Kyle

    Seems Legit

    Reply

  2. Kyle

    Never mind creaking door. Holy creaking mic Batman!

    Reply

  3. aryastark7330

    This was great thanks! I obviously have shocking lack of knowledge but I didn’t even pick up on the warging ‘controversy’

    Reply

  4. aryastark7330

    Also random point but I don’t think Sansa did blab to Shae that Littlefinger was going to take her away – her line ‘he just takes an interest because he loved my mother’ is supposed to stop Shae asking specifics and make it seem like he was just checking on her welfare. I felt so bad for Sansa when Loras didn’t even remember giving her the rose. We’ve all been there.

    Reply

  5. gbuq77

    I think Jojen will take the place of Bloodraven. Any thoughts?

    Reply

    Onion Knight

    Care to elaborate? Don’t see how that is possible.

    Reply

  6. Jack

    Your criticisms that Catelyn would never consider legitimising Jon Snow because he would then come before her real children (who she actually loves) doesn’t work out.

    When asked about succession rights GRRM said the following:

    “Well, the short answer is that the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history… which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpertations, and often contradictory.”

    “Do bastards have any rights? What about bastards who have been legitimized, do they go in at the end after the trueborn kids, or according to birth order?”

    “There are no clear cut answers, either in Westeros or in real medieval history. Things were often decided on a case by case basis. A case might set a precedent for later cases… but as often as not, the precedents conflicted as much as the claims.”

    So, if she had, there’s nothing to say Jon Snow would get anything before her children. I imagine Ned would concede to Cat and the Tullys due to his guilt over the whole Cat/Jon situation.

    http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Hornwood_Inheritance_and_the_Whents

    Reply

    Kyle

    You’re right. The laws and consequences of legitimizing a bastard child are often confusing and vary from case to case. Nor do I think Jon the type to screw over his Stark brothers. But, I think you and Daemon Blackfyre would be good friends. “Yeah just legitimize me. Don’t worry nothing bad will happen…”

    Reply

    Jack

    Well, that’s certainly her logical reason for disagreeing with Robb legitimising Jon in ASOS. But obviously it’s clouded with her hatred for the kid.

    I think she was just thinking with her heart during Jon’s sickness. The possible drawbacks of legitimacy wouldn’t cross her mind. She was just promising the gods that she would do the right thing and love/mother the child as if he was one of her own.

    But she sobered up when he got better. Perhaps she uses the Blackfyres as a justification for her distaste for all things Lord Snow.

    Also, we’ve got the remember, show Catelyn is different than book Catelyn. Especially since we don’t get inside her head during the show. From the context of the show this doesn’t seem outside her character at all.

    Reply

    nemui

    I’m fine with her going soft on Baby Jon in the heat of the moment, then backing out of it all later.

    I’m less then fine with her delusions of grandeur years later. How insane does she need to be to imagine that *the entire war that caused thousands of deaths* is due to her breaking a prayer-promise of some sort? Do civil wars happen whenever someone dishonors their promise to the gods, or is that just a Catelyn Stark thing?

    Reply

  7. wills

    I look forward to listening to you guys (and reading Elio’s write up) each week after I finish watching the show. This episode was fun to listen to, but I felt like I could tell that you guys were sick / tired before hearing the aftershow. It felt like you were flying through the episode and not digging in as much as you usually do. Maybe that was partly the result of this episode not having any big deviations from the books or major flaws.

    I thought for sure you guys would be more upset about Tyrion name dropping Ros. For me that was as bad as Ros’ actual scenes because usually Ros interacts with one book character at a time and I can just blank those scenes out of my mind, but this time we had two book characters (Tyrion and Shae — I guess she barely counts as a book character) discussing Ros, so it was harder to block out.

    Overall, I thought it was a fine episode, but I hope we don’t get too many more Theon scenes. I don’t think I can take too much torture. I was surprised you guys didn’t discuss the bastard more. Are we all just assuming that he’s going to help Theon escape next episode and then he’s going to hunt him down for fun?

    Reply

  8. Krakenpuffcerial

    I’m starting to wonder whether they’ll ever pick up that Varys-Ros thread that was set up in the last episode last season. I hope for the sake of the all the tables of the realm that they do not.

    Reply

    Jack

    They will. It’s only been two episodes. Give it time.

    Reply

    aryastark7330

    I hope so … mainly because I miss Varys creeping around being awesome. So is Ros just posing as Littlefinger’s employee but reporting to Varys?

    Reply

    Jack

    I’d imagine so.

    Reply

    earlp

    The reason why we haven’t seen Varys himself yet is because he’s actually been disguised as Ros so far this season. That was the plan he proposed to her at last season’s end, and its also the reason why there hasn’t been a Ros nude scene yet this season.

    Reply

    Kyle

    Sexy!

    Reply

    Dickon

    wash her and bring her to my bed – the words of Aegon IV are also the words of House Kyle

    Reply

    Kyle

    Nah I like em dirty.

    Reply

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