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Episode 105: And Now His Watch Is Ended

Episode 105 for the week of April 21st, in which we review review the fourth episode in the third season of HBO’s Game of Thrones.

Notes: Sorry for the very late release of this episode, it was due to attendance and lack of internet access at the very succesful Ice and Fire Convention. The article by Steven on Robb’s military tactics can be found at Race for the Iron Throne. The King’s Roadmap can be found here.

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46 Comments, Comment or Ping

  1. Usurpationblitz

    Of course I see this is up now that I’m going to bed, heh. I hope you two had a lot of fun.

    Reply

  2. Umber-ella

    Now that Mimi is back will we be forced to listen to complaint after complaint after complaint from her about how stuff is different from the books? I understood during season 1 because things were so new and we all wanted the show to be as great as the books. But that is never the case with book-to-screen adaptations. I read/listen to every review I can of each episode from all over the internet and NOBODY complains as much Mimi (and to a lesser extent Ashley) Guys please, we get it. Its not the same as the books. But from what I can see, this show is almost universally praised for what it has accomplished. Please give it a rest. It is an ADAPTATION not a literal translation. Recap it as such.

    Reply

    brynden

    It still is a book podcast and not a show podcast so I hope to hear comparisons if some scenes were better/worse in book or show (and yes some were also better in the show – Theon). I still only listened to the first ten minutes of the podcast and Mimi’s critiques was decent: She pointed out that Dany is very unlikeable in Season 2, and that is an OK statement if you know how much she loves Dany in the books. And she says that Jon’s storyline in Season 2 was butchered. BUT she points out how glad she is that Halfhand is there at all. SO I can not see any “complaint after complaint”…

    And if you really want nerdrage over the show: Go ask Linda (Westeros.org), and subtly mention the House of the Undying. And she even works on the swedish-subtitling (as far as I remember).

    If you only want to read or hear “good” reviews – stick to the pages you are used to. I know sometimes it seems over-the-top, but most times the critique is reasonable (questioning “not necessary and/or worse” over “good and/or reasonable” changes).

    Reply

    ash

    erm, most of us were giving it 4+ out of 5. Not really much to talk about if we just go, I loved this, I loved that. I point out a lot of differences just as something to say, I think you can tell when I’m actually pissed off (Pod) and when I’m just rolling my eyes but it’s hardly ruining the show (Everything in the North, Cat, ect.).

    Reply

    LeeorV

    Don’t listen to him Ashley, the true listeners are there to hear your comments and comparisons and ideas and theories etc’, I though this episode rocked!

    Reply

    mimi

    nah, no worries, i’ll be gone for at least the next three episodes.

    Reply

    LeeorV

    Boo! We want Mimi!

    Reply

    Lance

    Enjoyed your comparisons; one of the reasons I started listening to the pcast! Haters gonna hate tho screw em. Season 2 was way too pantomimey for me, something went wrong!

    Reply

    Justin

    Mimi, At times you provide good commentary but overall you just seem sooo negative about everything that it actually brings me down. I mean we all knew the show would be different then the books so I try not to even think of the differences and just enjoy this awesome show for what it is! Don’t leave, just don’t be so negative.

    Reply

    -

    The show is decidedly NOT awesome. In fact it barely watchable. I love this podcast WAY more than the show. It has better overall quality, better scripts, better humor, hotter girls…

    When I hear the podcast hating on the show it makes me happy. Crappy scripts, plot holes, inconsistencies. Those things deserve a little hate if you ask me.

    Reply

    Lex

    The show has some flaws, but come on, “barely watchable”? You’re being insane.

    Reply

    harry

    Fuck the haters, Mimi is awesome. I love Game of Thrones, but I still find most of her criticisms are totally right – I guess I’m just better at overlooking them than she is. (I don’t agree with her about Littlefinger being ruined by the show, though. He’s a douche who thinks he’s smarter than he is in the books as well!)

    Even when I don’t agree with her at all, she’s still worth listening to because what she says is always interesting even if I think it’s wrong.

    Reply

    LeeorV

    You can’t really ignore the fact that in the books, Littlefinger likes to hover behind the scenes and plot extremely intricate plots against everyone, just as Varys said in the show “Littlefinger would burn the realm, if he could be king of the ashes”

    Reply

    earlp

    Umber, there’s so many podcasts and websites that do nothing but heap praise upon the Game of Thrones TV show, with hardly any real insight or critical thought whatsoever, and the rare times when there is some, someone like you throws a hissy fit every single time. It’s so predictable and lame that someone like you can’t handle intelligent criticism and appraisals of a TV show from people who have been entertaining fans of this book series for years. Are you really that thin skinned that you can’t handle someone having a different opinion of a silly TV show?

    Anyway, awesome episode, my favorite of the new season so far. Mimi, you’re still the Queen.

    Reply

    Vaarsuvius

    you guys might wanna consider bringing Chase back. I think he’s better at dealing with being the center of sour hate and bitter spite. It rolls off him like BUTTER! (that made no sense i know). On a slightly more serious note, even when I disagreed with Chase, he always amused me. I don’t think anyone in this podcast was ever mean to a ungracious way, maybe except that one Catelyn/Michelle Fairley joke :p But that was before GOT was even out. Once it was out, NO ONE could stop heaping praise on MF’s performance. Lots of <3333 to you guys.

    Reply

    -

    I think that ship has sailed. Other than that I agree 100%. Even with the butter thing…

    Mabe we could get a super special episode with ONLY past hosts. That would be interesting I think.

    Reply

    Vaarsuvius

    It is sad but I have already accepted it. I do miss Chase though! And yes, Mystery Person, I do quite agree. That could be a fun, alternative dimension sort of episode… :D After all, Chris did check in relatively recently on the podcast’s facebook page…

    Reply

    Stuck in line

    I thought I would miss Chase more then I am but the host I am really missing is actually Nancy would love to hear her back for a few episodes.

    Her perspective was really different.

    Not that the current line up isnt brilliant or needs fixing it doesnt Amins right the quartet works well

    Reply

  3. Linecom1

    @umber-ella i think the whole point of this podcast is to give show reviews from the perspective of book readers. if you want professional tv show/movie reviewers keep reading alan sepinwall, etc. this is the only medium to offer this type of perspective on the show…….

    also, how the FUCK could you not enjoy the fact that mimi is back?!
    she’s by far the star of the show and always brings the fun energy, whether she’s ranting or raving. if you have a problem with her i doubt you’d enjoy any of the podcast episodes……there are plenty of other podcasts that dont offer the books perspective. don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

    Reply

  4. pjstwo

    Also, Umber.. Did you even listen to the episode? All Mimi was complaining about was last season’s Dany being a whiny bitch. Which she was. And in the books she didn’t really do that until DWD. So it was appropriate to bring up. And of course, you are welcome to not listen. But I’m glad the whole band is back together.

    Reply

    Armbar

    She complained a lot about this episode as well. Honestly, 95% of what comes out of her mouth is negative. I don’t get it. If she hates everything so much then why even watch it. To me she comes off like one of those stuck up people who always say the book is better then the show/movie. Just enjoy it for what it is! Fuck, it’s not that hard.

    Reply

  5. MJH

    @umber: I kind of agree with you and I also don’t. I think the podcast does bring up good criticism and the podcast is from the POV of the books. They were also catching up with Mimi for a whole season so both praise and criticism were both “concentrated” so to speak. My own criticism of the podcast. constructive hopefully, is that sometimes it seems the knee jerk reaction is to call a change negative. I think the discussion generally brings it around but the first reactions seem to be “table flip”.

    One other thing I wanted to point out is the Pod/whore discussion that calls back to last episode. I understand that Ash didn’t like that and I understand that position. However, it seemed she was advocating that since the community reaction to the Pod/whores situation was negative last week, it should not have been included again this week. Even if the show wanted to change it for episode 4, it is just not possible to make that change at so late a date.

    Reply

    ash

    it wasn’t that the fandom hated it, it was that it didn’t fit with the universe we’re used to. It seemed Fanficcy, and while I can let that pass with a quibble in ep3, it’s actually a personal pet peeve of mine when writers beat a dead horse – it’s like Asha’s repeat of “this is my suckling babe” line. It was cool the first time but it came off as lame and pandering the second.

    Reply

    kadayi

    I think the whole Pod thing is just simply a bit of prep for the character to take on a bit more of a role later on as he does in the books Vs being simply Tyrion’s squire who largely says nothing most of the time.

    As regards the podcast. To take a rip on the adage ‘don’t bring me problems, bring me solutions’ don’t bring questions, bring theories & speculation. Constantly going ‘why?’ ‘whats up with that?’ ‘I don’t know?’ isn’t exactly great podcast material at the end of the day (sorry guys/girls).

    Ultimately the show runners are trying to tell a story and inform an audience about the multiplicity of the world (both Westeros & Essos), the personalities of the characters, their motivations and beliefs, the nature of the obstacles they encounter on their way as time progresses, how they overcome them and the lessons they learn as a result, and how that changes them. All in a way that is digestible to an audience most of whom likely aren’t likely familiar with the books at all.

    Start thinking like you’d never read the books as well as the realities of television show creation, budgets and retaining actors and the reasons for things fall into place by on large. They’re not always ideal, but there’s a reason behind them.

    Reply

    Pod's Plight

    Why should they start thinking as though they haven’t read the books? Every episode starts by saying that this podcast has spoilers for all the written material. The audience they are aiming at is people who have read the books.

    I agree that theories and insights are valuable, but I also like to think of the weekly show reviews as conversations you might have with your friends about the show. If a part struck you a certain way, or you didn’t get a scene or storyline, then feel free to share that. As non professional media commentators/ critics, the hosts can only be expected to do so much. We just appreciate the time and effort they put in.

    Reply

    kadayi

    “Why should they start thinking as though they haven’t read the books? ”

    Probably so they avoid Constantly going ‘why?’ ‘whats up with that?’ ‘I don’t know?’ and produce a better podcast as a result?

    It’s all very well to bang the drum about being the longest running ASOIAF podcast, but why not aspire to be the very best as well?

    I was under the impression comments were for feedback (positive and negative). But I guess some people think the latter is a thought crime. Defence force away I guess with more obtuseness.

    Reply

    mimi

    my “why” isn’t as rhetorical as it comes off, i think. i mean, on many points, when i was at a loss for the direction of certain scenes, the other hosts provided their interpretation of it and i found their views interesting and helpful. case in point- box wizard. i had no idea what the point of it was, until kyle explained that it was to illustrate the idea that tyrion’s own revenge could take just as long. then it made sense to me.

    Reply

    nemui

    I was surprised to hear that you were OK with Iceland as the setting for north-of-the-wall scenes. I was kind of looking forward to some table flipping in response to everything happening in a dry wasteland, with no tree in sight, in broad daylight. What do those tens of thousands of wildlings eat?!

    IMHO, that whole segment of the show completely failed to capture the creepy atmosphere from the books.

    Reply

    kadayi

    Perhaps then maybe better to delay podcasting until some digestion of events has occurred in future then.

    Reply

    earl

    kadayi, I think Umberella got such a strong reaction from people because he was being deliberately antagonistic and smug towards the hosts, not because he expressed some criticisms.

    Reply

    kadayi

    I think you need to remove your fanboy glasses there in truth. I’m not seeing smug or antagonistic.

    Reply

    earl

    So I guess that makes you an enormous Umberella fanboy with these whiny little outbursts.

    Reply

  6. Shellfish

    Powerful Fred and Greg shout-out! I feel validated.

    Reply

  7. Travys

    More NERDRAGE! More Mimi! Also, Kyle sounds like he’s broadcasting from King’s Landing.

    Reply

  8. jesicka309

    I DON’T KNOW WHAT WE’RE YELLING ABOUT?!?!?!

    Seriously, everyone, great podcast. :) Made me grin. I love the nerdrage, because no one in my real life understands why I ever get peeved about things in the show.

    And for all the grumpy people who seem to have emerged this season: There are plenty of places where the show is reviewed positively all around. Go look at Winter is Coming or Game of Owns, where there is a different sort of discussion. This is a place to nit pick, nerd rage and discuss book contrasts/changes, and the Internet is a HUGE place. I’m sure you can find a different sort of review that will line up with your opinion. Not everyone will have the same reaction to a TV show, and berating this podcast for having a different opnion to yours is just silly.

    Reply

  9. GreatScott

    Hey guys great episode! Been listening since I devoured the books after season 1, and have been enjoying it ever since.

    I’m glad to hear I’m not the only one who didn’t care for the Pod scene. I was only merely amused by it on the first watch (mostly for the Meereenese knot reference) and then thought it was mainly a waste of space and air time the more I reflected on it. It didn’t really do anything to add character to Pod, and the intended levity/humor element really came from Bronn and Tyrion who can basically make any interaction hilarious, so the sex god Pod really didn’t add any special fuel to their comedy fire. If the show wants more humor in the form of dick jokes, they could actually flesh out Tormund as a character, instead of just angry-old-man 3.0 ginger edition who yells at Jon.

    I still agree that Season 3 has been great so far, probably my personal favorite, but you guys have every right to criticize it for it’s weak points. BRING ON THE RAGE (at least in the after show)

    Reply

  10. newbie

    I’d like more compare and contrast from mimi. I don’t mind that someone has complaints with the show. But tell us why and how it could be stronger. Just saying it wasn’t as good as the books just leaves me hanging waiting real analysis.

    Reply

    jesicka309

    I guess that they skimmed over most of Mimi’s opinions because she was summarising her reaction to season 2/season 3 thus far…analysis of every reaction to the series (which the podcast covered last season) would be a little redundant at this point. Much better to skim ahead to this current episode. And even then, sometimes we can’t understand why something is happening and analyse it (Talisa for example. Who knows what role she will end up playing? Her future could have a huge effect on how we judge previous appearances by her).

    Reply

  11. Tony

    When the “aftershow” started and Mimi opens with “so I read this fucking article…” , only to be cut off by Amin saying “yeeaahh we’re gonna cut that out, that’s just for us”
    I started crying I was laughing so hard.

    It was great to have you back Mimi! :D

    Reply

  12. Ranjitb

    So an interesting point about the show informing the books -

    [And I'm not criticizing their performance], but Margery and Olenna Tyrell have gone from being pretty much background extras to being front and center in nearly every episode….I doubt they are going to suddenly disappear, so a bigger role for Clan Tyrell ?

    Further, while we can go back and forth on Danerys Lincoln being the pre-ordained “winner” in the books, with the onset of the show-fandom who worships fanatically at her altar and greatly outnumbers book-only-fans, I would have to think the “Wise Queen Dany, with her Wise Husband-Brother Hand Tyrion [secretly a Targaryen all along]” scenario is more and more likely.

    What do you guys think ?

    Reply

    Kyle

    I believe Clan Tyrell is getting the same treatment as Robb. They weren’t right there infront of us, but they were certainly making moves and being active. I feel everything we see Margery and Olenna doing on screen are pretty close to what I imagined them doing off the page in the books.

    Reply

  13. Jon

    Have a great trip Mimi! Come back soon.

    Reply

  14. -

    That was an AWESOME episode. This podcast needed more Mimi to be even more fantastic than usual.

    On the whole rant/rage thing… I think the dynamic is better when at least one person brings the nerdrage. Like Chase used to (I know we dont talk about him but still…).

    Also, not detracting from Mimi’s excellent performance this episode, I thik it just works better with at least 4 hosts. So mabe we cold get a guest host or two while Mimi is away..?

    Reply

  15. Darran

    I like Mimi most of the time but when it comes to TV show she’s kind of like the Mad Aerys of this podcast. Kyle –> Jaime, Amin –> Tywin, Ashley –> Rhaegar.

    Reply

  16. Lex

    I gotta speak up and defend Mimi on this episode. I always thought the podcast was too negative towards the show, but after reading the comments I was expecting a LOT worse. In fact, I thought Mimi was generally positive. Even her general thoughts on Season 2 sounded pretty positive overall. Just my two cents. Good episode!

    Reply

  17. Jeremy

    Welcome back, Mimi (I’m catching up on the episodes)!

    Flip those tables. I mean, Mimi still gave this episode a 3 – I don’t mind if her “review” is more about why it didn’t get a 5 than why everything is awesome.

    Reply

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