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Episode 52: The Wolf and the Lion

Episode 52 for the week of May 15th, in which we review the fifth episode of HBO’s Game of Thrones. Because of our special guest host this week, this episode is SPOILER-FREE until the aftershow (at which time, you will hear the spoiler warning). Listen to us discuss booby-trapped saddles, the Loras & Renly Manscaping Hour, and mourn poor Jory Cassel with our hilarious, enthusiastic guest of the week: Larry, of Otaku Assemble Youtube fame.

ASOIAF readers and long-time APOIAF listeners, stay tuned to our ridiculously long aftershow for some familiar voices, and their opinions on the episode!

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70 Comments, Comment or Ping

  1. pjstwo

    YOU MOTHERFUCKERS GOT OTAKUASSEMBLE! OMG OMG OMG. Download faster, you sumbitch

    Reply

  2. Tom

    I like how Chase complains about everything, but then is wrong about like 90% of the things he’s complaining about.

    “Ned killed like 12 guys on his own!” Well, no. He killed like 2 guys that weren’t trying to fight him at all.

    “The floor wasn’t sloped!” Actually it was.

    “Nobody gossiped about Loras and Renly!” Except Jaime, and whoever said that Margaery would stay a virgin in Renly’s bed, and…

    I don’t remember what the last thing was. Everybody in the podcast called him out though.

    Larry was great. Oh man. “When Ned and Jaime fight again for real!” Or talking about Dany’s child. I can’t wait for his next couple videos.

    Reply

  3. Ugo Strange

    Bravo Larry, Bravo !!

    Reply

  4. Dudebro

    I tried to listen because I like Larry, and his absolute genuine enthusiasm is totally infectious. For his sake I hope he never comes back.

    I don’t think the rest of you are every going to be happy with the series. You won’t be able to take the series for what it’s worth, and will scrutinize every single little detail that’s changed or added for the sake of pacing or exposition.

    I love this series and I’m totally loving the show too. I’m glad that I won’t every have the patronizing attitude that some of you do. Enjoy your sour circle of spite.

    Reply

    Ash

    “I don’t think the rest of you are every going to be happy with the series”
    *snort* Not going to find bigger fans then us. Don’t ever take the internet seriously. We bitch because we love.

    Reply

    mimi

    oh right, WE’RE the patronizing ones.

    sometimes forget that we’ve been podcasting about ASOIAF for three years because we hate it. all of our coverage and dedication to the tv show is strictly for loathing purposes. so when we coo over how perfect maisie is as arya, when we rhapsodize about emilia’s portrayal of dany, when we gush about the beautiful production values, we are obviously chillin’ in that circle of spite.

    i think it’s wonderful that the tv show receives so much attention and obsession from the fandom. not every reader feels the same way about the adaptations. that’s the beauty of having personal opinions. i think larry had a great time recording with us, and vice versa, and we look forward to having him on again at the end of the season. and when that happens, i hope for your sake that you don’t feel the need to shit your pants again over the fact that someone on the internet feels differently about something.

    HOUSE MANWOODY: WELCOME TO THE CIRCLE OF SPITE.

    Reply

    oxmix

    Remember all the vitriol dumped on that New York Times reviewer?

    Reply

  5. Poe to the Pulps

    Umm…Dudebro,

    Chill man. This is the first episode that got dinged by the majority of the podcasters, which I have to say startled me a bit, but given the level of devotion and love they have given to the books and now the show, ease up and relax.

    I mean, if you want to listen to a circle jerk, I’m sure there are many places that have just so happened to appear in the past….say….month or so, to do that in.

    I spent three or four podcasts listening to them praise the show, when I thought it was seriously lacking, and didn’t get the holier than thou attitude you just expressed, but perhaps that is just based on your ‘shocking lack of knowledge’ of the podcast and it’s history.

    The person with the patronizing attitude seems far more likely to be you, it’s almost…troll-like….since you don’t seem to have much history here.

    Seriously one bad review of one episode, out of the first five and you come up with a whining post like that?

    Kick rocks man.

    Reply

  6. Tom

    One thing I find interesting is how pretty much every praises the characters in the books for not being one dimensional. Cersei is one of the more one dimensional characters in the books (from other character’s perspectives). In the HBO series she’s more multi-faceted, and everybody (minus Nancy) hate it.

    Reply

    Kyle

    Hmmm good point Tom. I think we’ve all gotten so used to the “nothing but horrible person” Cersei that if we’re shown any other side of her we spasm in disgust.

    And Mimi has something against her eyebrow. My theory is that because of the lack of Cersei camel toe in the HBO series, Mimi needed another physical characteristic to hate on.

    Reply

    Poe to the Pulps

    I have to agree. They couldn’t wait until season 3 or 4 to give her some roundness.

    She’s still pretty evil, she’s just not a cartoon, which is what she would come across as if they just xerox her from the first book.

    Her scene with Robert was much more effective in fleshing her out than the scene with Catelyn. They can turn her into a monster now and have it be compelling and not just a plot contrivance.

    Reply

    Kyle

    Oh I completely agree. I think I said back in our podcast about the 1st episode that as an actor, Lena, needs to start from this point. Because if she started off bat-shit crazy then as the series continued on she would have no where else to go. But with the choices she and the writers have gone with we know get to see her fall, which will be very exciting.

    Reply

    Christina

    I also like how Cersei is more rounded in the show. It will just make her fall all the more sweeter.

    Reply

    Ash

    my view is the same as Linda’s, that it’s not that she’s sympathetic, but that her lioness personality seems muted. but maybe she’ll come into her own once Roberts dead.

    Reply

  7. jason

    Amin i laughed so hard when you told chase it could only be 60-40 percent that there are no in between percents. hahaha

    Reply

    FTWard

    If Amin was not already my HERO, this would have sealed it!

    Reply

    Kyle

    Oh man I totally missed this. Nicely done Amin. Nicely done.

    Reply

  8. I love me some Chase. You know I do. But there’s no way he’s as dim as the character he plays on the podcast.

    “48% gay” was by far the funniest line of the night.

    Mimi (or “boobs” as I like to call her) still runs this show like its her own personal S&M victim. Crack that whip!

    And to anyone who doesn’t really get the awesome snark y’all deliver, fuck ‘em. This is tough love at its best.

    Reply

    Leeor

    LOL, LOL and one more LOL for “boobs” as a nickname for Mimi. you’re evil man!

    but I digress, she certainly does run the show, and hearing chris after he wasn’t on the podcast for so many episodes, only to find that he barely cares for ASOIAF, was kinda sad in my opinion. poor guy, he’s missing out.

    Reply

    FaBio

    I love the different personalities, as well as Mimi and her lowbrow gutterspeak, but they might be served better to rotate them rather than piling six at a time onto the snark bus.

    Maybe Mimi + 2 (and a guest if applicable).

    I think Amin spoke perhaps four times this episode.

    Reply

    mimi

    wuv yoo, fabio. when i come to LA you better give me hugs.

    amin didn’t get much airtime during this episode because he was using the world’s worst mic. whenever he spoke in conjunction with someone else, his dialogue was at best undecipherable. luckily it’s only a one-episode thing, because we need him to be our repository of knowledge. and dornish sexiness.

    Reply

    FaBio

    If you hit LaLaLand we’ll have to have a Podcast of Ice and FAAUUUGHH get-together with all the local nerds.

    I can’t promise you hugs. What if your gigantic boobs get in the way? What will my wife say?

    (She’ll say, “Mongol invatrix, you slew my forefathers.” And she’ll draw some funky Korean sword and make an attempt on your life.)

    Reply

    Kyle

    Asian Ninja battle between Fabio’s wife and Mimi? I am already making the popcorn.

    Reply

  9. Christina

    Regarding Loras’ helmet: it’s not a unicorn horn. They’re twisting vines going up to a point.

    http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Gallery/Entry/2089/

    Reply

  10. Shandy

    Thanks for getting Larry! Always like to hear his thoughts.

    Reply

  11. Great Episode!
    Larry, if you’re reading this, record your next youtube recaps straight after watching, we want to see all the nerdrage LIVE! :) Thank you.

    Reply

  12. Zeyik

    Bring back Aaron!!

    That after show was packed….nice to hear some old voices…another stellar performance..keep up the great work

    Reply

  13. Andrew

    Why the hell wont it let me listen!!!! Omg omg omg… breath Andrew breath.

    Reply

  14. Robert in New Orleans

    How come I can’t DL ep 52 from your website? DL page only goes up to 51. I don’t do itunes. Thanks, great pod.

    Reply

    Lezuzius

    Copy this into your browser, then “save as”
    http://www.podcastoficeandfire.com/wp-content/uploads/episode52full.mp3

    Reply

    Robert in New Orleans

    ok, got it to work by right clicking yr link, tx

    Reply

  15. Emily

    Wow! Otaku!! Great episode! Aftershow was an unexpected treat. Keep them coming!

    Chase should take a chill pill (or two) before he podcasts, though. Why is he always mad?

    Reply

  16. Kev

    Great guest. I listen to Larry after every episode. Most honest and insightful reviewer out there.

    Reply

  17. Pete

    Why isn’t episode 52 up for download yet?

    Reply

    Lezuzius

    just read the comments, you will find it there.

    Reply

    mimi

    whoops, sorry for that omission. it’s linked on the download page now.

    thanks for the help, lezuzuius.

    Reply

    Pete

    Thanks! you guys rock! Just stop being so hard on Chase.

    Reply

    mimi

    hey, i gotta yell at someone. if not chase, then it’ll have to be kyle.

    Reply

    Pete

    The pretty boy could use some razzing. Builds character.

    Reply

  18. Dani

    what an AWESOME episode! I loved Larry, he was a great guest host! So excited, so smart, so imaginative.

    And, that aftershow was tremendous! Star-studded glory.

    Thanks again guys :)

    Reply

  19. Sebastian

    Whoever’s hating on this episode, you’re f’n crazy. This is some of PoIaF at it’s best. I mean come on now, you got Ashley 2, drunk Christina, Eleo (and his girl) and CHRIS FOR GOD’S SAKE EVERY EPISODE SHOULD END WITH CHRIS! Even though he sounded like he was woken from a drug induced stupor, he still brought his charm. Play on playa.

    Reply

    James

    I couldnt agree more. It was so good to hear from Chris again, I used to love the battles he had with mimi in the early episodes he seemed to be the only one who could man up to her. I think thats what drove her mad and the angrier she got with him the funnier it was. Now she’s the undisputed queen its still good, but that chemistry was priceless.

    Reply

  20. Pretty surprised you guys didn’t like the Littlefinger/Varys scene. To me that was far and away one of the best done scene of the show so far. The scripting, acting, direction, and everything came together to make it a damn good character scene that just pulled me in. Is it the best scene for being true to the book? Eh. But it is a great scene for tv.
    Heck, I’m a bit surprised about just how negative you guys were about the episode…but listening to you guys is a ton of fun anyway. And Larry was great.

    Reply

    mike

    Agreed 100%. That scene was verbal sparring at its finest. Same with the Robert/Cersei scene.

    So happy I haven’t read the books, otherwise I’d be nitpicking and cross-referencing all day and wouldn’t enjoy the series for what it is. It would ruin the show for me.

    Reply

    mike

    And how to put this delicately …. Chase is a moron.

    Reply

    mimi

    we were pretty happy with some of the other episodes, this one just struck a nerve with some of us because it was very difficult to watch as a separate entity from the books. i think everything that went down the vale was great, but kings landing was rough on the purist.

    the littlefinger/varys scene was just so incredibly uncharacteristic of them. to discuss their scheming openly in the throne room, of all places. vary’s looney-tune level double take at littlefinger’s droppin’ the knowledge was particularly hilarious. you’re right about the tv thing though; it was necessary for viewers to understand the full thread of scheming, spying, and contention in king’s landing. but again, you know, the books…

    Reply

    mike

    That makes more sense. I appreciated the scene because the dialogue was so well-written, but it did seem a lot more upfront than you’d expect. No real time for subtlety with only 10 episodes though, they have to hit a checklist of major points and move on (“scene where it shows they’re conspiring off camera … cut …. next scene”).

    Reply

    mimi

    yeah, absolutely. 10 episodes is quite short to fit in as many characters and their motivations as the book contains. that’s one of the main reasons i don’t mind the extra theon greyjoy spotlights. he gets less airtime in the first book, but it’s totally necessary to establish his place in the stark household and his feelings about it in order to set up his focus in the second book.

    Reply

  21. Dani

    sweet mention of the podcast at Winter is Coming! Yay!

    Reply

    mimi

    the boys at WiC are such sweethearts. too bad every time we get mentioned, the hate starts pouring in.

    Reply

    Dani

    yeah, i hadn’t seen the hate at WiC until just now, i don’t really get it…maybe these morans are super-prude and just don’t understand the awesome Manwoodiness that is APOIAF…

    Reply

  22. I LOVED THIS EPISODE!

    Larry is absolutely fantastic, and the spur of the moment calling of everyone at the end was luverly :D

    Reply

  23. Skyweir

    By the seven, you guys are major nitpickers. This was the best episode of the 5 by far, and all the new scenes (except perhaps Theon and Ros) were excellent, needed and fit nearly perfectly into a narrative which is not bound by the PoV structure of the books. All of these scenes could (and likely did) happen in the book-world, but there was no PoV character present in any of them, so they are not part of the books.

    I have enjoyed your podcast in the past, but since the GoT- TV show began all you guys have done is complain (and not that well either, getting a lot of details wrong about the book and the show). For people who are often making pretty large mistakes about storylines in the books, you nitpick far to much.

    Books are not TV, and things that work in books do not work on TV. If the books were translated directly to screen, the series would be horrible.
    I consider myself a major purist in most cases, but for ASOIAF, which is such an internal book focused on what people are thinking, large changes is both needed and wanted.

    I can’t listen to you guys anymore, Chase in particular just makes me angry, since I can’t give rebuttal. I might be back once the series is in hiatus.

    Reply

    mimi

    i know i mentioned this at the beginning of this episode, but it’s become quite difficult for some of us in the podcast to separate the books from the show. i, for one, understand that the fact that books are not television, and revisions are necessary for adaptation. however, that doesn’t prevent me from having a strong reaction to them.

    i find it a bit disappointing that the podcast is accused of rampantly hating on the series, when it’s clear from our past episodes that there are lots of aspects of the show that we absolutely love. we have tons of respect for so many of these actors and their portrayal of their characters. it’s a shame that our positive reactions get lost in the snark.

    i totally respect your decision to stop listening to the podcast, and i understand that we are not for everyone. i just wanted to clarify that i love this show, and i know that the majority of my fellow hosts feel the same way.

    Reply

    Tom

    I think the annoyance is that the hate and love for the series is 90% based on how close it tracks the books rather than whether or not it’s good television.

    Reply

    Poe to the Pulps

    I have sympathy for this point of view. I can’t believe I have twice agreed with you this evening, Tom. Perhaps the world is about to end.

    :D

    Reply

    Kyle

    Hey Skyweir,

    Sorry to hear that man. Hopefully you’ll still join us for our chapter discussions which are starting back up in the next episode.

    Just know that everything we say comes from a place of complete love for the series and material.

    “There’s a fine line between love and hate.”

    Reply

  24. Rosanna

    I love that you guys put Larry on the podcast. He has insightful and refreshing opinions of ASOIAF, although I have to resist the urge to correct him. :)

    I can’t believe you guys receive hate. The APOIAF sense of humour can take some getting used to but I like that you guys don’t take it so seriously and it matches the dirty humour of the series.
    You guys are a fun podcast. I don’t want to hear people drone on and on about theories and in-depth analysis without some humour in it.

    Some people just can’t listen to the opinions of others that are different from theirs respectively. I may not agree with the podcast’s opinions all the time but that’s how you get perspective.
    We can’t be all agreeable that EVERYTHING about the tv series is great, at the very least you give out your reasons (which people are failing to hear).

    I Love APOIAF!

    Reply

  25. Fishsticks

    Wow! This was an awesome episode. The after show is probably my favorite podcast moment yet. Well done guys.
    The funniest moment for me was when Mimi tells Chris that the podcast has about 10 thousand listeners when she usually down plays it and says like 6 listeners. That was good stuff.
    Its too bad that this episode is taking so much heat, cause it was definitely one of my favorites. I dont understand it because I didnt feel like you guys were being too negative at all. I pretty much agreed with everything you guys said.

    Reply

  26. Don’t let the bad comments get you down, you don’t have to love every detail in order to be a “true fan”. There are things that could have been done better, and we have every right to be upset, that they weren’t.

    But just because some of us are upset (maybe our standards could be a bit lower) over parts of the show (or gods forbid, the books), that does not mean we don’t enjoy it greatly. It is a very very good show, overall. But as amazing as it might be, there are things that are less than. And not only the nit-picky stuff, there are scenes where you can hear crew sounds, there is the occasional bad CGI… and while I can see why they made most changes, some of them (usually the ones of the seemingly nit-picking variety) are done only for the sake of change. And in a story, that is as detailed as asoiaf, any tiny change can leave a loose thread later on, because we do not know the whole story yet, which means there is no way for us to know what tiny detail is important!

    It’s arrogant and reckless for them to do these small changes, and yet, they’re doing big changes to the story. It could potentially lead to a dead end somewhere along the line.

    Now, with all that said, once more (with feeling!) – it’s an amazing fucking show.

    Reply

  27. Guys, let me tell you why you need to stop with the knee jerk negativity and weird anal obsessing about the colour of the King’s hair, the slope and decor of the sky cells, Loras’s helmet, the wildling’s armour and Cersei’s eyebrow: because at times you come out with some really interesting stuff and it gets lost amidst all the noise. I nearly turned off a couple of times because of all the reactionary gatekeeping and if I had that would’ve been a real shame.

    Reply

  28. Anonymous

    Mimi mics too loud

    Reply

  29. sadrobotsings

    Yanno, I didn’t object that much to the inclusion of Renly and Loras’ relationship. Though the oral sex and chest shaving scene may have been a bit heavy-handed I think the writers use Loras as an explanation for Renly’s later actions. Since the show has the opportunity to expand the scope beyond the point of view of several characters, it makes sense to explain why Renly splits town when he does etc. In the books we have no reason to assume the Loras influences Renly’s bid for King, but why couldn’t it have happened? Renly was one of those characters in the first book like Jory and Theon who I thought were somewhat neglected and who have been fleshed out in the show which is cool.

    Anyway, great podcast you guys!

    Reply

  30. Larry is great! podcast is awful!

    Reply

  31. Jeremy

    Great job by all!

    Reply

  32. Mike

    Wow this podcast is horrible, these guys are just a bunch of elitist pigs that is really out of place, because they really don’t know what the hell they’re talking about. Time to re-read, newbies.

    Reply

    Amin

    I’m sorry you feel that way – from what I recall, this was probably our most controversial episode. If you give us a try again, try one of the guys night out (V3 if you’ve read A Dance with Dragons, V2 if you haven’t) or one of our Clash of Kings rereads (spoilers for all the books though).

    Reply

  33. Lex

    For what it’s worth, I hated this podcast episode when I first heard it (a year ago)… But it’s because I listened without context. You need to listen to a few episodes before you really get the sense of humor, the personalities of the hosts, etc. I’ve come around and am a big fan of the podcast now. I even like Chase. :)

    Reply

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