Episode 63: Guys Night Out V3 (ADWD)

Episode 63 for the week of August 29, in which we host another Guys Night Out, Dance with Dragons style (*full of spoilers*). Guests hosts are: Elio [ Westeros.org], FaBio [Winter is Coming], and Alex [Tower of the Hand], as well as Apocalypse Dan from our forums.

In another episode (and aftershow) of Tormund Giantsbane proportions, the guys review and discuss A Dance with Dragons in general, before diving into an assortment of theories. For a definition of creaking doors and the other terms used in this episode, check out our podcast terminology.

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24 Comments, Comment or Ping

  1. A Podcast of Ice and Fire

    Note: The audio quality is a little frayed (due to separate recordings), but should settle down 5 or 6 minutes in.


  2. Matt

    Jon’s death was set up in a Cersei chapter near the end of AFFC. I think it was brought up at the small counsel to dispose of Jon, and then it was further discussed with a Kettleblack.



    yep, Jon sure is dead. Just like Theon, Bran, Rickon, Brienne, Aegon and Catelyn.

    Fool me once…



    Cersei was going to send a Kettleblack north to take the black and have him dispose of Jon. It got derailed when the faith just started torturing him. I don’t think anyone in King’s Landing had a part in it because it was more of just a natural response to Jon’s words.


  3. Matt

    On Volantis, the slaves and Danny, it is brought up in a Tyrion chapter in ADWD when Jorah is trying to find travel east to Mereen. At the end of the chapter where meet with the widow of the waterfront, Vogarro’s whore, she says “Should you reach your queen, give her a message from the slaves of Old Volantis. Tell her we are waiting. Tell her to come soon.”


    Tom 162

    I was just about to look for that very quote.

    The tiger/elephant background didn’t seem too laboured to me, and it serves the plot by putting another anti-Dany faction in the field and providing a pro-Dany faction as a stepping stone on her way to… well… The Stepstones.


  4. Tom 162

    About the obligatory guys’ night out topics, I welcome Septa Lemore as a bona fide MILF without an off-putting personality (*cough* Taena *cough* Catelyn *cough* Cersei *prolonged coughing fit*), and salute the wall-climbing, shield-splintering, lute-plucking, castle-infiltrating tower of badassery that is Mance Rayder.

    About the fat men, I thought Tyrion’s “Hey, is that Illyrio walking past outside the door? No, just a white dwarf elephant” was a bit gratuitous, and the Yellow Whale being four times Illyrio’s size was inconceivable. Those are very minor details, though.


  5. StormtrooperDan

    This guys night out is nothing compared to the previous guys night outs. It was just a big circle jerk of how great GRRM is and defending the bore that ADWD was.



    Dynamite drop-in loser.



    To be fair, and I’m not saying the guys were lying or anything, but basically everyone (except Dan) on this podcast have “big” stakes in this series since they all run/participate in websites and programs based on it. It’s sorta goes without saying that they have a soft spot in their heart for Martin and probably would view DWD in a more positive light. I kinda have to agree that it would have been nice to have one dissenting opinion about the quality of the book, but whatever. Ashley put that opinion forward eloquently in the last podcast. I’m just glad you guys are smart and know what you’re talking about. Lots of other podcasts talking about the book are amateurs with a really basic knowledge of Martin’s world. It drove me crazy with the mistakes they made.



    I’m just starting a re-read (well a partial re-read – I’ve already cut out and burned all the Danerys/Quentyn chapters) and I like the book more than I did the first time, but it’s still definitely a bore and goes nowhere fast.
    The only redeeming storyline was the North, and even that was left entirely hanging.

    I appreciate the fact that someone brought up that years down the line if you read (a potentially) completed series back to back DWD will have it’s place, but as things stand a rambling world building set up novel is not what the readers wanted. This is exactly what people said about FFC “Oh you can’t have plot all the time, we are just setting up for the awesomeness next !” Well this essentially means that all the characters have been “chess-piecing” for 11 years now, which is a bit much even by Sistine chapel standards.

    And yeah not going to lie – the “four lemoncakes eeeee !” circle jerk at the beginning was terrible to listen to. Where’s the snark ? Where’s the hate ? Where’s all the reasons I listen to APOIAF ?


  6. SerPounce

    That was one seriously fair and balanced discussion of the “Brandon Stark was a douchebag and/or Ashara’s babydaddy” theory. I think you guys aired every possible viewpoint without getting repetitive. (Not being sarcastic here!)


  7. Ash

    “it has mutilations, burnings and rape.”
    “Well that sounds like a Martin book for kids to me.”

    I killed myself laughing.



    Without the incest! That’s what makes it for kids :D


  8. Edric

    I heard it repeatedly asserted as fact that Edric Dayne was named after Ned Stark. Is this true? I can’t find it in ASOS.


  9. ranjitb

    Ok so just finished listening to the rest of the episode and a few other comments -

    1. Elio has based his entire Brandon-rapeface theory around one comment made by fucking Barristan Selmy. I think it’s a little random to belabor the shocking lack of knowledge (on part of the general populace) about events and timelines during wartime, and the fact that most of what we know is hearsay and gossip and then suddenly base an entire theory – which completely contradicts an established character- on a comment by a Selmy. As far as we know he had no reason to be in Starfall (he would have been in Kings Landing as part of the KG) so how the fuck does he know what happened with Ashara ? Further, we know that he is *also* a jilted lover (well jilted is not the right word for it) but we know he wanted the lady for himself – so just the fact that she was with another man has probably been retroactively turned into “dishonored” in his mind.

    I also don’t doubt that Brandon Stark stayed celibate for the entire duration of his betrothal. But he had no need to. Thats what brothels, and crofters daughters and millers wives are for. While it is disapproved of in some circles, it is also shrugged-and-accepted that Lords will be lords and wet their whistles once in a while. It *only* counts if the woman in question is also of high birth. So if it was purely a question of needing to get off, BS could have done it anywhere, anytime, without doing it with a high born lady of a very powerful noble family.

    Also Lady Dustin nee Ryswell by her own account was just as willing to jump into bed with him as he was with her. That’s just them being highschool sweethearty rather than him using his political power to get into her bed.

    2. This seems a little petty and somewhat sacrilegious, but I personally believe the books and stories need to stand on their own based on what we as general readers have access to. Constantly being told that one theory is more valid than another or that the book is actually better than we think it is because of all this *awesome stuff that happened in a private correspondence* is total BS. Elio/Linda may be blessed enough to have access to all this back story and behind the scenes info but the rest of us don’t.


    Elio M. García, Jr.

    I’m not sure what a “rapeface” is, but I don’t think Brandon raped anyone.

    As to “private correspondence”, I was referring to an item published in the So Spake Martin collection, which we host:


    Dany was born nine months after the flight from King’s Landing, immediately on the reception of news of Rhaegar’s death, so he Jon was born around the Sack or about a month after… at least, according to George. But as I said, he allows himself room to contradict himself.

    Did I refer to any other correspondence in discussing this theory that was not actually published and available freely to anyone interested in looking at it?

    The broader point about just sticking to the text and nothing else? That’s cool, if that’s what people want to do, but it’s not how I prefer to interact with the text, and generally speaking I think people are happy to glean tidbits of worldbuilding and history and plot detail from Martin’s correspondence, his appearances at conventions, etc.


  10. Kyle

    Alex, Fabio, and Ellio, I just finished listening to the episode and loved all the knowledge and insight you guys bring to the table. I’m disappointed that I hadn’t finished the book in time to join the discussion, but hopefully you’ll all join us again sometime.

    You guys are a blast. Keep up the great work.


  11. Kyle

    I also think we need to add Septa Lenore to the list of hotties.


  12. Steve

    Elio had a better argument.

    You can’t argue that Brandon wouldn’t “dishonor” Ashara just because he broke off the relationship with Lady Dustin.

    If Brandon didn’t dishonor Ashara, then Ned did. So according to the above argument, Brandon was more honorable than Ned? Does anyone honestly believe that Brandon was more honorable than Ned?

    It’s Brandon’s honor against Ned’s and I’ll take Ned’s honor anyday.


  13. Catlyn

    I love this podcast! It’s great that other people can talk about Song of Ice and Fire just as much as I can :) I also agree that Theon’s chapters in ADWD really made that book, even with the lack of my favorite character, Jaime. I totally missed the Mel/Stannis part also!


  14. nemui

    I’m an irregular listener, so you guys might have covered this already, but just in case you haven’t – I’d like to hear your thoughts on the options for Sandor’s return to the narrative.

    I keep thinking that he’d be a great choice for a champion of the faith at Cersei’s trial, a chance to reunite with his brother… but the timing would be off, since he’s 1) still in recovery and 2) unknown to the priesthood at King’s Landing unless the silent monks’ve already revealed his secret identity.


  15. Gabrielle

    Latecommer here. Catching up on a APOIAF episodes.

    Episode 63 was great – thoughtful, good flow, articulate contributors, and thought provoking. Excellent and wonderfullly nerdy debate/discussion!

    Please get these gentlemen back together again in the future.


    A Podcast of Ice and Fire

    You may just get your wish very soon…


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